Shop layout/ DC system

[Jesse Busenitz]

Ok here is the general layout of my shop. http://cdn0.grizzly.com/shopplanner/...9-7212DD8612D9
They aren't all grizzly machines obviously... but you get the idea. Anyways any ideas to rearange the machines better? The planer and jointer are on mobile bases. The metal bandsaw is my miter saw/table lol... it's as close looking as I could find. the big rectangle is my bench, circle is the trash, blob in the top left corner is propane tank, and the rectangle by the TS is a cabinet. Also I'm trying to set up a permanent DC system so I'm trying to figure that in as well. This is a shop inside a large machine shed, and thinking about putting the DC outside. Oh 11' ceiling everywhere All suggestions welcome! Thank, Jess

[Brian W Smith]

Bear with me here.........

Have you seen in newer subdivisons that outside chimneys have largely been replaced with gas inserts?Look at what the typical bumpout.....we call'm "doghouses"...looks like as an appendage on the outside of a house,so equipped.This little lean-to,shed roof affair is exactly what a DC and an AC(aircompressor) for that matter,would look like if you relocate them to the outside of the shop.And just like a doghouse chimney....these need to be insulated and basically treated as living space WRT heating/cooling etc.There's a list of advantages....floor space and noise is enough for most folks.

Yes,I read where your structure is already inside of another,I'd still consider the enclosure....especially if forklifts or vehicles of any kind are present in that outer rm/part.

The two(AC-DC) should be in separate "chambers",for lack of better term.Still under one roof though.Many ways to skin a cat,so the options are almost limitless in runnin them this way.They can have big doors for outside access.You can incorporate a dustbin style room as well,returning filter'd air back to shop.By getting them isolated from main work/shop area,it allows more flexibility in design.

Another area where these doghouses work is,as an ad hoc spray booth.Google "Binks style" spraybooth for images.Most folks just don't have the sq ftg it seems to fully incorporate a spraybooth.Put it into a doghouse....complete with it's own vent,fan system(not part fo ANY other DC system).You could even elevate this and have a downdraft affair....many ways.Good luck with your planning.

[Jesse Busenitz]

Thanks Brian for the info... Yeah inclosing it all would help a lot of issues... I have a grizzly 2hp DC with a 2 stage separator on a 55 gallon drum, so I'm trying to invision how to set everything up.....It has 1550 cfm which I think would be enough as I'm usually only a one man shop. I'd love to have a spray booth but I consider myself lucky to get the wood shop, as the rest of the shed gets used for the farm.

[Justin Ludwig]

I just went through a major shop "move-around". I was reorganizing everything to incorporate dust collection for stationary tools. It was very overwhelming considering all the information and specs concerning DC systems. After getting an engineer involved and being quoted $6000 (not shipped) for the pipe, motor, fan, and starter - I baulked. I too have a 2hp 1550CFM DC. On a leap of faith I did the following:

Removed the bag assembly and exhaust outside the shop.
Ran 12' 4" S&D pipe to my RAS that has a 4" custom hood.
Ran 20-25' of 4" S&D pipe past my shaper and stopped at my planer and drum sander.
Built self-cleaning blast gates using Alan Schaffter's design http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...ast-Gate-Plans (they work beautifully and were fun to build)
Purchased a 1hp floor DC and dedicated it to my TS alone: wired it into the TS switch so it turns on/off with the TS.
Rewired shop and put in switches to turn on DC without having to walk to corner of shop.

Total spent: $800 (200' of 10/3 wire and receps, 2 - 1hp DCs, S&D pipe and fittings, misc stuff)
Hours spent: about 16
Savings:$5200 (not including my own labor)

I was concerned that I would not have enough CFM and FPM from my 2hp unit the clear the planer of chips and drum sander of fine dust. Boy was I wrong. Removing the bags turbo charged the thing. Now I'm concerned about amperage and burning the motor up, but I'll fix that. The DC with the bags at 5' away wouldn't get all the chips from the planer and some would get "pressed" back into the wood by the outfeed roller. No longer.

I'll take pics this afternoon if you'd like to see.

[Jesse Busenitz]

Justin, I'd love to see some pics of your setup..... On the blast gates what holds the whole assembly together?

[Justin Ludwig]

Justin, I'd love to see some pics of your setup..... On the blast gates what holds the whole assembly together?

Magic. aka the laminate is glued to the sides then trimmed to fit. His direction sheet leaves a little to be desired, but a little thought and you can figure it out. I'll take a close up photos of mine; not nearly as pretty, but just as functional.

[Justin Ludwig]

I have the option to vent outside, as I live in the country. Notice all the existing dust? Don't have that problem anymore. I immediately reduce the 6" port to 4" to maintain velocity. The exhaust is 5". The 6" pipe was very loose around the fan housing. I wrapped the housing with duct-tape until it fit snug. Some people use inner-tube rubber, but I used what was on hand. It works.

IMG_2538.jpg

Blast gate. I used 2-sided tape to stick both stops/handles on so I could remove the gate if needed. Hope this gives a little perspective. I made 3 of them in a couple hours using 5 minute Epoxy. I even stuck the 2 pieces of laminate together using epoxy as I had no laminate glue on hand. Only thing I'll do different next time is split a 4" coupler in half and use it on both sides. Allen's directions state to use a female one side and male the other.

IMG_2539.jpg IMG_2540.jpg

This view is from the RAS. 8' table and the blast gate is by the switch to turn on DC. 9' run with a gate, then 45* elbow down to mainline, 90* turn and into the impeller. If this gate is the only one open, then no chips or visible dust escapes unless I get out past 12" on the cut. With two gates open I can still get 6" out before visible chips escape and even those are very minimal. Considering I used to make cuts with a Dewalt CMS and no collector hooked up to it, I'm in heaven. Not sure if you can see, but I built a replaceable insert for the RAS. Any cuts requiring a 45 miter I use the CMS.

IMG_2541.jpg


The A/C unit gives perspective on this run. 45* elbow angling up, blast gate and 90* elbow at the shaper, another 45* then 90* turn. I'll be using the shaper next week. I haven't tested the efficiency of its hood. I'll probably build a custom hood for the panel raiser.

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End of the longest run. I think it's about 24' overall. 3-45* and 1 90* with 4' of flex hose I swap between planer and drum sander. Pulls/sucks amazingly well.

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This cheap little devil does an amazing job for under $200 shipped. I ripped about 8000 ln.in. of soft maple on the saw with it hooked up and it filled the bag. I wired it into my table saw so its on/off with my saw. Last thing I have to build is an overarm collector that I'll tie into the main DC. With that, I'll need a remote switch as my TS is 20ft from the DC switch.
IMG_2544.jpg

Next up is building a downdraft table.

Hope you enjoyed the tour as much as I enjoy not wearing my mask anymore (minus ROS sanding).

[Leo Graywacz]

Dog. LOL that's great. Certainly don't know how to hook up the dog to the DC though...LOL

[Jim Andrew]

Speaking from experience, don't think I'd run your dc piping until you are sure you like your shop layout. I took my system down this winter, and re-installed it, it turned into quite a job. Must have improved the system though, as I have pipe left over. One thing I did not like was having to use a T to make the overhead dust connection to the table saw. A Y is what is recommended, but I'm not tall, and being able to reach the gate and then get above the blade with a Y just doesn't work for me.

[Jesse Busenitz]

Justin thanks for the pics! On that first one are you blowing straight outside? What's your setup for return air?

[Justin Ludwig]

I'm exhausting outside. I'm lucky (and unlucky) that I live 20 miles past BFE. My town is 470 peoples. Return air? I scoff at the notion.

You won't get the same performance out of your 2hp "1550 CFM" DC if you're running a 2-stage separator and bags/filters (my uneducated guess is you'll get 50% the performance). My unit with the bags and no separator struggled to get all the large chips from my spiral headed planer using just 8' of flex hose. Without the bags and no separator, I can have two 4" ports open, one at 12' and one 24' away (with 4' of flex hose), and it pulls better - WAY better. I'm ordering a remote switch and digital ammeter to hook up to make sure I don't burn up my motor.

[Jesse Busenitz]

2 of my wall are exterior wall on the main shed so I could shoot all the dust outside/get rid of the cyclone, but if I shoot all the air/dust/chips out that's going to create a draft not? Which would kill my heater or AC.....

[Justin Ludwig]

Notice in my 4th picture is my A/C unit in the wall, just to the left of the DC exhaust. I wrapped it in washable filters - rain cleans them for me. You could build a "catch box". If I couldn't access the shavings and dust with the tractor (we use the shavings for compost), I would have built an enclosed wagon I could move and dump when necessary. Again, things don't have to look pretty when only the trees see it - unless OCD dictates otherwise.

[Jesse Busenitz]

I'd love to shoot everything outside but, I'm wondering about the draft that would create? Seems like that would kill the Htr/AC....

[Jim Andrew]

It would be nice to exhaust outside, but in Kansas, it is usually either too cold or too hot to just open the windows and enjoy the weather. We have about 2 months a year when the weather is really nice. So I have heat and AC on my shop, hence filters. You can use a shop vac with your RO sander. I have a Bosch sander, they have fittings to make the connection to a 1 1/4" hose, really works well.