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Thread: Are your layout lines showing?

  1. #1
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    Are your layout lines showing?

    I see a lot of high-end work where the layout lines show on all the dovetails. To me it looks bad. It is like an artist leaving pencil lines on an oil painting. Am I alone? Am I too critical? I see this often in FWW and other publications on amazing pieces, so I have to ask.

  2. #2
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    I have to admit it has always bugged me too.

  3. #3
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    3 for no lines.

  4. #4
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    4 for no lines. This may be part of what contributes to my infrequent use of dovetails for show. I do use them structurally.
    "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".


    – Samuel Butler

  5. #5
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    I plane out the lines if I can (the lines can detract from the finished piece). Sometimes they are too deep and they stay.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  6. #6
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    Often I try to plane them off. Sometimes using pencil makes that easier.

    For boxes to use around the shop it doesn't matter if they show. If they are hidden on a drawer they are often left.

    Sometimes though if the layout lines are uniform they can look okay. When some are deep and others are weak then it causes an unbalanced look.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  7. #7
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    Those that advocate leaving layout lines (and extra long sawcuts on dovetails) visible cite instances of the same on antiques of high reputation and provenance. In Japan, it is considered careless, a sure sign a worker does not have control of his tools. I was wacked upside the head more than once for making layout lines with knife and marking gage longer than absolutely necessary, even in hidden mortises in joinery. So I agree, they look bad. Both on the finished product and the workman's reputation.

    Stan

  8. #8
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    The lines bother me too. On my last box, my first corner was bad. So I put masking tape on the boards for the other three corners before before marking them. They came out all right. Minimal planing was needed if any. I will try this again on my next dovetails.

  9. #9
    Personally I don't mind the layout lines. As much as anything they indicate hand work. It is a cultural thing if you despise them or not.

  10. #10
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    I really don't have an opinion one way or the other. Usually mine are gone once I plane everything flush. I would be fine if they were still there, too. As long as they are consistent within a complete piece.

  11. #11
    I leave the layout lines on purpose. I think it looks a little neater, especially on figured wood. It is a bit of the same effect that a line stringing border gives, a little needed refinement to balance wildness in the grain.

    When I see dovetails without the lines, I get the idea that the guy spent an inordinate amount of time cleaning up. How bad were they?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kees Heiden View Post
    Personally I don't mind the layout lines. As much as anything they indicate hand work. It is a cultural thing if you despise them or not.
    You know Kees, Ihave read this many times written by others, and I don't get it (this is not a knock on you, just a comment in line with the thread).

    First of all, most (99%) of my non-woodworking friends cannot recognise a dovetail, never mind a hand-cut from a machine-cut version. They do not open drawers to see the joinery. Only woodworkers do.

    Secondly, none of them are interested in whether something is hand built or machine made. They are only interested in what it looks like and the finish. Sanded or planed is all the same to them - they have no idea how furniture is made. For all they know it comes from the store, designed and built by elves (unless it is made by myself, i which case they are politely complimentary, and I change the subject).

    Thirdly, if my wife and I are the only ones to know and appreciate the fact that the joinery is hand made, I do not need lines to remind me of this fact - somewhere there is my red blood as a reminder!

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  13. #13
    I don't care what others think. I care about it myself. All antiques in my house have visible layout lines. Not just drawers, also boxes and carcasses, sometimes obvious, often almost invisable. I like that, it is a connection to the maker who was a human, not a machine. If you would teach your non woodworking friends they might start to apreciate this too.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Mickley View Post
    I leave the layout lines on purpose. I think it looks a little neater, especially on figured wood. It is a bit of the same effect that a line stringing border gives, a little needed refinement to balance wildness in the grain.

    When I see dovetails without the lines, I get the idea that the guy spent an inordinate amount of time cleaning up. How bad were they?
    I had often wondered if this was the case- that some folks like the line and intentionally leave it or even mark it heavy-handed. I hope nobody thinks I am knocking their work. The ones I have seen are by masters, but still to me it looks like they forgot to plane them out, and it detracts from the joinery. It makes the dovetails look like separate glued-on pieces in some cases rather than a part of a single piece of wood. (My opinion, which isn't worth much!) I was reluctant to ask but glad to know I am not alone.

    Perfectionism is my greatest flaw.

  15. #15
    I don't have a real preference, but I usually mark mine shallow enough to plane them out pretty easily. On antique furniture, I don't care if they're there or not, I usually just open a drawer to make sure the original drawers or at least a reasonable approximation of the originals is still in the piece, and care more about the proportions (are the tails and pins tasteful - not perfectly done necessarily, but tasteful proportions - and are the sides thin enough to be attractive - I despise tiny pins on drawers with very thick size - which is fortunately something I never see on vintage furniture).

    My parents look for furniture that's been hand dovetailed, but they, as a small % of the population who does that and who doesn't woodwork, wouldn't care whether or not there's a line. I doubt any of their friends care about those details, and i'm not sure who taught them to, either.

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