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Thread: Are your layout lines showing?

  1. #31
    As far as I was aware layout lines were/are the sign of a quality craftsman as if they had gone that means the draw had to be planed to fit the opening and not made perfectly.

    Matt

  2. #32
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    I can do without looking at the scribed or pencil lines what have you. I plane them off.

    Which brings up a similar peeve of mine . . .
    People finish the drawer front then take a half hearted wipe across the dovetail area leaving a film on the lighter wood in a stripe.
    I like finish just on the half blind dovetail end grain of the darker wood avoiding the wood of the drawer side entirely. If the sides and the interior of the drawer need finish, to help keep them clean or make them easier to clean then I like Krenov's suggestion to wipe with a very much thinned coat of shellac.
    Last edited by Winton Applegate; 04-17-2014 at 1:09 AM.
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  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm Schweizer View Post
    I see a lot of high-end work where the layout lines show on all the dovetails. To me it looks bad. It is like an artist leaving pencil lines on an oil painting. Am I alone? Am I too critical? I see this often in FWW and other publications on amazing pieces, so I have to ask.
    I teach the students in my dovetail classes that leaving the scribe line is a way of showing that the dovetails were hand cut and not machine cut. There are other things that demonstrate hand cut, specifically making the space between the tails too small for the shaft of a router bit, and slight irregularities in the angles of the tails, and perhaps in their spacing.

    I agree that the only people who will recognize such signs are other woodworkers but that's fine with me. Non-woodworking people don't notice any of the details.

    Mike

    [I've been known to go back and re-scribe the layout lines if they disappear while sanding or planing.]
    Last edited by Mike Henderson; 04-17-2014 at 12:55 PM.
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  4. #34
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    For me, if they're there, great. If not, okay too.

    I can tell (usually) if DTs are machined or hand-sawn; one, look for the pattern (is it way too regular) and two, machined DTs will look different on the inside. They're curved.

    To each their own, though.
    The Barefoot Woodworker.

    Fueled by leather, chrome, and thunder.

  5. #35
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    I don't like them. I try to plane them away, but not hell bent on making sure they disappear.

    I think it is a bit silly to attach value to them tho, just me. I think a top of the line antique won't have any.

    @Derek... your comment of "nobody opens drawers to check joinery, only woodworkers do" made me chuckle, every time I see a piece at someone's house I do this without realizing drawers are personal and sometimes private.

    I somewhat disagree with something else you said, about people not caring if it was planed, sanded or handmade vs machine made. I agree with that, but even the ones with the least idea, are somewhat drawn to handmade stuff, it has that je ne sais quoi, in the finishes, the slight imperfections, the non-monotonous flair of hand made things. They may not know why, but I think they do like it better (not them silly lines). I have a silly step stool, with a lid, it is poplar which I consider a notch above ugly, it only has linseed oil, but it looks so homely that people quickly assume I made it and thus pick it up, open it touch it and compliment it to death... LOL a freaking utilitarian, fugly stool of poplar, I know that if that was an IKEA stool no one would comment on it.

    Pedro

  6. #36
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    "nobody opens drawers to check joinery, only woodworkers do"
    My family's business was a furniture store until my dad retired. My job there was mostly doing deliveries before or after finishing a day at my regular job.

    He told me people often opened drawers to see if they used dovetails in the construction. They may not have known a lot about furniture making. Somehow the general public knows dovetails are better than finish nails when it comes to holding a drawer together.

    He showed me a dresser where people did this the most and quickly moved on. It used sliding dovetails to hold the sides into the face of the drawers. He would pull a drawer out and show them that it did use dovetails.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
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  7. #37
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    Stanley,

    can I call you Slick or do you prefer Hotshot ?
    markiing gauge
    I am curious . . .
    which marking gauge you use.
    Some have the thick beam in the way and it is difficult to see the knife or pin while marking.
    I made a gauge with the knife on the end for this reason.

    Show us yours please.

    Sharpening is Facetating.
    Good enough is good enough
    But
    Better is Better.

  8. #38
    I have to say I like looking at old antiques and seeing layout lines, as well as plane tracks on the undersides of the pieces. I have a few old wooden moulding planes that have all the layout lines intact, and it makes me really appreciate all the handwork that went into those planes as well.

    I suppose it is a certain aesthetic style of furniture building today that would leave these layout lines and even plane tracks in place as an homage to the woodworking techniques of the past. So in that respect, you could say it's a design feature of a reproduction style of furniture.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winton Applegate View Post
    Stanley,

    can I call you Slick or do you prefer Hotshot ?
    I am curious . . .
    which marking gauge you use.
    Some have the thick beam in the way and it is difficult to see the knife or pin while marking.
    I made a gauge with the knife on the end for this reason.

    Show us yours please.

    Winton, you have a kind manner and a cheery disposition. I take it you are not a gubmint employee. Feel free to call me anything you like. With a name like Stanley, well, you can imagine.

    Nice gauges! Very pretty work. What's the wood? I know what you mean about the beam getting in the way.

    I like the Kinshiro gage. Its kind of standard for joinery work in Japan. I think I own 5 of them in various sizes, one left handed even. I grind the blades very thin to make a precise cut, and to also help see the blade so I know when to start a line and when to end it.

    The TiteMark gage is another favorite. One handed operation is very convenient. Round blade does not start and stop as cleanly as a knife blade gauge does, so it has its limitations.

  10. #40
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    Hi Stanley

    I echo all you say (except about Winton ..... )

    The Kinshiro is my favourite. Are they available still? I thought that they were not. So I made a couple of single blade cutting gauges from cheapies ..




    What is great about these and the wheel gauges is that you can set them to an exact depth by doing this ...



    The other one I like is the LV Anniversary wheel gauge in stainless steel that was available for a while (no longer). I bought a couple. Good heft and the offset rod creates a longer fence.



    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  11. #41
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    I like the layout lines mostly, but on some pieces I can see where it would aid the overall appearance to plane them away.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Henderson View Post
    Mike

    [I've been known to go back and re-scribe the layout lines if they disappear while sanding or planing.]
    I use a router and jig and scribe the lines after I'm finished too!

  13. #43
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    Stanley,

    What's the wood?


    Thanks for the compliment.


    The wood is Cocobolo. For any one who has not worked with it it is interesting and out of the norm in a couple of respects. Beyond being pretty hard it is one of the rose woods and smells just like roses when working it. Beats the heck out of my notorious purple heart which often smells like dirty feet while working it. (not after though; the smell goes away pretty fast).


    Also cocobolo feels oily; you can feel it in the shavings. The wedges are cocobolo sap wood. Seemed dense and strong enough so I went with it. You can see hints of the sap wood on the corner edges of the small gauge.


    Hey thanks for posting about your gauges !


    Now I see them in a new light. I was aware of them from books but never actually thought I needed one but now I am going to look into getting one or two.


    A person can’t have too many marking gauges and I don’t have many at all.
    Sharpening is Facetating.
    Good enough is good enough
    But
    Better is Better.

  14. #44
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    Hi Winton

    I never thought to ask if you made those gauges - they are so well made that I thought you purchased them!

    Tell us how you use them, what you see their advantages are over other types.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

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