Are your layout lines showing?

[Mike Brady]

All a matter of preference of course, but why object to the layout lines and not object to the presence of exposed joinery? Are we to assume that the maker was able to make the joint without laying it out beforehand but didn't have the skill to make the full-blind version of the same joint? As Warren says, visible layout lines at least convey that the maker had mastery of his technique.

[David Weaver]

not object to the presence of exposed joinery?

Objection your honor! I object to the exposed joinery. It interrupts the lines of a piece the same way it would interrupt a song if we had to flip records four times to listen to it.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

It depends on what joinery is exposed and how it ties in. For example, exposed dovetails on a blanket chest, when done properly, add to the look of the piece in my opinion. Likewise, a through-dovetailed table leg is a nice aesthetic. To expound on your point, those exposed dovetails should not show any layout lines. :-)

[Sean Hughto]

I think we should avoid sweeping generalizations. Instead, we should look at actual pieces and ground our perceptions with reference to specific contexts. The question is whether a particular existing work is better or worse with the line.

[Tony Parent]

Another vote for no lines! I've always thought it looks sloppy, or that the person was in a hurry. That's not to say I don't leave tool marks from time to time that I don't recognize till the finish is on. I can understand someone wanting the marks there to fit in with an existing piece, but not on new work if possible.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I really didn't mean to pick a fight or (pun intended) draw a line on the issue. To me it just looks like the craftsman forgot to plane away the lines, and it distracts from the look of the dovetails.

[Sean Hughto]

Pop quiz, hotshot: you've glued up a drawer, and testing in the hole reveals a piston fit, do you plane both sides enough to remove the lines but compromise the drawer action, or leave them?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug2hLQv6WeY

[Daniel Rode]

A: I kick the woodpile after realizing I made the drawer too small

I'm lucky to get that kind of fit after fitting let along after glue-up.

Pop quiz, hotshot: you've glued up a drawer, and testing in the hole reveals a piston fit, do you plane both sides enough to remove the lines but compromise the drawer action, or leave them?

[Judson Green]

Pop quiz, hotshot: you've glued up a drawer, and testing in the hole reveals a piston fit, do you plane both sides enough to remove the lines but compromise the drawer action, or leave them?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug2hLQv6WeY

Couldn't the maker have both? Shim out the runners? Shim out the drawer sides inside the cabinet? A French type bottom?

[Stanley Covington]

[QUOTE=Sean Hughto;2255489]Pop quiz, hotshot: you've glued up a drawer, and testing in the hole reveals a piston fit, do you plane both sides enough to remove the lines but compromise the drawer action, or leave them?

Simple answer, Slick: don't make lines where they aren't needed, and they won't need to be removed.

[Sean Hughto]

So you use your marking gauge to only mark the baselines between the tails, for example? Sounds fussy. I suppose you could use a square and knife, but that sounds fussy too.

There are lots of answers for this quiz:

You should have made a drawer 1/64 wider in the first instance, so make another drawer.

Screw around with shims or add some runners or what have you.

Realize its a drawer side and fit and action are the point, so leave it.

etc.

[Judson Green]

You should have made a drawer 1/64 wider in the first instance, so make another drawer.

Yup! This is what I've always done. Not really with the intent of removing any layout line but rather to insure I CAN fit it to the hole.

[Stanley Covington]

So you use your marking gauge to only mark the baselines between the tails, for example? Sounds fussy.

What's fussy about knowing precisely where one's marking gage cutter is located, and lifting it so it doesn't cut a line where a line is not needed? A little extra care during layout and one can entirely preclude the need to make drawer sides oversized, or waste time fussily planing a drawer just to remove lines that serve no practical purpose, but only evidence to future generations that the guy using the marking gage didn't care. Think about it. Or maybe not.

[Sean Hughto]

Think about it. Or maybe not.

You've really got my number, Stanley: stupid, incompetent, and unthinking.

[Jim Koepke]

the same way it would interrupt a song if we had to flip records four times to listen to it.

A four sided record would look mighty strange.

In a production shop there often isn't time to be fussy about things that aren't going to be seen.

My latest dovetailed drawer still hasn't been glued. Now it is just becoming a test as to how long it will be before it needs gluing.

The tails on this drawer are very proud of the front surface as part of the "look."

I may not subscribe to your religion of tails first or pins first, layout line stays or goes, end grain shows or doesn't show, but it doesn't diminish my work or your work one bit from our having different perspectives or methods.

What started out looking like a simple, innocent poll looks to be turning in to another nasty name calling thread.

I'm outta here.

jtk