On Customer Loyalty ... ?

[Mike Null]

Bill

I enjoy talking to retail customers. It's just that their jobs are usually onesies, They want to talk about it, rethink it then talk some more. i find that they can quickly become an annoyance. It is not often that a retail customer becomes a regular. They have a job right now but probably won't have more and I don't really want their referrals. Personal choice because I am home based.

I have had commercial clients refuse to do business with me because I don't have a store or commercial location. Not many, but it does happen.

The reason I like commercial clients is because they have continuing needs and their orders are larger. They like to do business by email. Most pay promptly, some want terms. I just got a job last week where the customer's terms are "net 45". I have customers who have been with me for 15 years. One started as a small volume plaque customer and in the next 3 months I will ship plaques to their 2000 locations. (they are an example of a unique program where I function as a supplier and fulfillment house .)

The other unique marketing program I developed grew out of a $20 order. Once I determined how much volume there was and how I might offer a valuable service and a profit making opportunity for the customer (s) I put together a slick presentation that turned into a fairly large and continuing business. When I say large, keep in mind I run a one man shop with a part-time helper.

I have always viewed engraving as offering a service rather than a product, much the same as a plumber or a dentist. Over the years I've broadened the services that I offer as most of my customers have need of more than engraving. I offer CLT and laser sublimation along with rotary and diamond drag engraving. I do wholesale for a few customers including a jewelry store and a gift store. I do a bit of sandblasting though I really don't like it and turn away some work. Besides adding to my services over the years I have some jobs where it is necessary to outsource. You can expand your horizons greatly and for no investment by finding people who will do jobs or parts of jobs for you.

While most of us will share the hows of doing a job there are things that we don't share for the simple reason that the internet makes us all competitors.

Oh yes, GO TO TRADE SHOWS and work like crazy while you're there. You'll be amazed what you can learn. There is an NBM show in Indianapolis in June. Go if you can.

[Bill Stearns]

Mike, Frank, Gary 'n All -
It is certainly encouraging to find so many of you doing really well with your engraving businesses! Easy enough to tell that I've been growing discouraged: my sales hardly ever reflecting all that I can do, and offer. I ran out of yellow highlighter marking thru all your terrific suggestions - one all the way from Ireland. Believe I have enough, now, to keep me busy for 'quite a while. In short: I am going to, best I can, set aside the whining and worrying - gonna go back at this with renewed vigor and confidence. Let the chips fall where they may. Think it was Henry Ford who said: Whether you think you can, or think you cannot, you are right!"

Thanks everyone,
Bill

[Tim Bateson]

...Also: being in Northern Minnesota I get so many guys looking to have rifles 'n guns engraved - I am just trying to save 'em a trip...

Why would you NOT do weapons???? It's a good deal of my business and growing every day. Besides gun/knife owners will usually pay a premium to have their weapon customized. Gun/knife owners give me more tips $$ than any other product/service I produce.

[Chris DeGerolamo]

Tim, it is from my experience you should not engrave any more firearms, but rather send those customers to me instead. hahaha!

[Tim Bateson]

Tim, it is from my experience you should not engrave any more firearms, but rather send those customers to me instead. hahaha!

No problem. :-D

[Bill Stearns]

Tim - Chris:

Does hurt knowing I'm turning away business of any type. Especially, knowing there is a market in my area. Guess I have avoided engraving "firearms" - mainly, thinking the liability too great, if an error were to occur. Don't know much 'bout firearms, but I have to believe they're darned expensive. Then, there is my not knowing the metals being used and all. Guess I've thought, all this time, this was a rotary engraving thing - or, some process used by "specialty companies". Are you talking 'bout my using Cermark? - even on the dark metals I've see on firearms? ( I have tried engraving on dark colored metal knife blades - doesn't show up worth beans.) I have an "in" with a very popular sporting goods retailer, here - could probably gain quite 'bit of business if I could better understand personalizing firearms. Don't suppose you'd start a new thread on the topic? (Worst thing is: to see ways to increase business, yet not have the needed resources. Should I be looking into buying a Pantograph, you think? - would that help me break into this?

Thanks for all your support 'n ideas.
Bill

[Frank barry]

Hi Bill
I bought an old pantograph played with it sold it made a few £ on that and bought a Suregrave Dahlgren Wizzard this machine is built like a tank no plastic on this machine I fitted a self centring vice and you can do that for small money cheers Frank

[Ross Moshinsky]

I have no desire to be in the trophy side of the business. Good margins or not. I'll stick to what got me where I am today. If it's not broke, I'm not going to fix it.

Um, are we not talking about someone who is in the plaques and awards business though?

Bill: I looked at your site and I saw solid wood and designer plates on everything. Well that's why you can't get the "value" buyers because every plaque you sell costs too much which is why you can't think of selling for less. I'll also say this, your prices are too low Bill. I've spent the last 3-4 months on and off researching plaque pricing and you're too low for what you're providing. Type in "award plaque" on google. The first 5 sites are your global competition. If you're lower than any of them, you're priced incorrectly.

I'm going to do my best not to throw out actual costs but if the "LE" series plate costs X, and I can buy 2 sheets of stock and make the same thing for 2X but from the sheet stock I get 6x the product, I'm dropping my costs by 1/3. Not to mention those designer plates are constantly damaged which I find to be a major issue at times. Doing it my way, you don't have to drop your plaque price at all and yet your increasing his margins a reasonable amount. You may have to pay $400 for a sheer, but it should pay for itself quickly enough.

[Mark Ross]

Bill,

We are currently in 12 different markets with our lasers (yes with an s...LOL) and we have a "work with us loyalty program".

If they stay with us we will...

Carry safety stock of finished items if their demand goes up and down.
We will do rush jobs at no increased costs.
We do free prototypes.
We research and show them new technologies applicable to their markets.
We have a stocking program where we run X amount of work over X amount of days/weeks/months and bill them on a predictable basis (kind of like being on an energy budget) so they have a fixed cost. Many businesses are boom or bust and it ties into the safety stock thing. If we do 25K a year with one customer, we bill them 2K or so every month. In months they are booming they might take 6K of product but they only pay for 2K.
2% 10, net 30? I haven't seen that in a long time. All our good customers get Net 60. Great customers get Net 90, but we do a lot of work and have negotiated Net 60 with our vendors so we can go and offer net 90 to our great customers.

Basically we kind of act like a bank with 0% terms for a certain amount of time. But only with customers that we can pull D&B or other credits on and our sales people are constantly there dropping off things and checking things out to make sure that things are okay.



Those are only for our loyal customers. Sure sometimes we get nervous when we don't hear the phones ringing, but we have some huge (Fortune 50) customers that have Net 90 and pay at 270 but you learn how to factor that in.

But the ladies (isn't this always how it works?) in accounting have the last say. If someone is told 90 days, on the 91st day, they are in the doghouse and they stay there...for a long time...and they know and respect it. Those who don't get pushed back into Net 60, Net 30, COD or CIA (Cash in Advance) and it takes years for the CIA's to get back into the great category.

We are not a powerhouse who goes through pallets of material a day, but we do pretty well. It all depends on your market and who your customers are. Hope this helps.

[Bill Stearns]

ROSS -
Sure appreciate your advice and your evaluating my site, products, and pricing. In a nutshell, I was so excited learning "how" to create my own site - seeing, now, that a better thought out marketing plan should've come first. (including pricing.) I will definitely look at those sites you mentioned, as a pricing guide for my plaques. Been so focused on how to increase sales, had stupidly forgotten to find ways to cut costs! No reason I can't design 'n offer my own "designer plates" - from cheaper sheet stock. Dumb part is: I do own a metal sheer/cutter! This is one of those "Duh! Kick Me" moments! Plus, I think JDS has 'fairly new line of economy plaques - 'stead of my offering solid woods. Not sure my customers appreciate, or care 'bout the difference - when they're looking for price? Thanks again. I've sure got my work cut out for me!

Bill