Marking gauge cutter material?

[Fitzhugh Freeman]

Steve, I haven't. I have only touched the surface of all this. Not having to order real quenchant by using canola was a plus. So is not having to kill and render a hog for lard, syphon at fluid out of your neighbor's car, and get whatever else was in the "Goop" quenchant I remember reading about when I first looked into this (in the wrong places, clearly).

So, if you want to try but not order a whole piece yet, do let me know as the offer is sincere.

[David Barnett]

The blades I've made take and holds an edge really well compared to a many or mist purchased tool blades I have, which says a lot to me.

Getting good consistent results says a lot to me, too, and your enthusiasm is understandable. Making tools that are better than many commercial tools, getting exactly what you want and in forms that are likely unavailable otherwise is worth the effort, and surprisingly easy at times.

I've long made my own repoussé punches from W-1 cold-drawn'square' drill rod because it's conveniently shaped and fairly cheap. W-1 does best with a soak in my HT furnace even though I prefer to torch temper differentially for a harder business end and a tougher shank. 1095 HT can be even more finicky. That's fine for batches of things but a pain for just one or two tools at a time. If you can't HT in a furnace, your results with W-1, 1095 and O-1 will be hit and miss. 1084 makes the process almost spontaneous, which I really like.

As I've read and been doing it 1084 just needs to get to the point where it is nonmagnetic, plus "a little more" (see? Forgiving. I think it was 50* F but the numbers don't help without a way to measure and colors?

The Curie Point for simple steels is usually around 1500° F. If you don't use a ceramic magnet, kosher salt melts at 1475° F.

[David Barnett]

Hey, one more question for David, Fitz, or whoever: Have you tried quenching the 1084 in brine? I've had reasonably good luck with some vintage steels in brine, and have not cracked anything yet.

Although the 10xx series steels are shallow hardening and water-quench steels and can be quenched in brine to avoid the vapor jacket, I prefer to quench all small and thin section blades in light oil. Thicker sections in brine works well. Thin and tapered profiles will crack more easily in water, though.

[Don Kingston]

Thanks Derek! The size, shape and slot are perfect for what I had in mind. Just sharpen it up and I'd be ready to go. I always want to order from LV, but the shipping is often more than the items. In this case several times more

Maybe I can find something similar elsewhere.

BTW - Your gauge is gorgeous. Anything you'd do different after living with it for a while?

If the shipping is more than what you want to buy, you need to buy MORE. hahaha help expand the growing economy

[Steve Voigt]

Of course, my attempts at forging little blades didn't do as well. If by forging you mean banged it with a hammer until it's smooshed. I was having fun and think I kept them in and out of the fire for way too long. They feel very different to (try to) sharpen and just don't take an edge. I'm guessing I burned off a bunch of the carbon. Live and learn.

Fitz, I am obviously not an expert, but one thing that worked for me is "normalizing." George W. mentioned this to me in another thread, and it really works. If you look at some of the blacksmith sites, they all say to always normalize between forging and hardening. It's easy--you just heat to non-magnetic or a little higher, then air-cool. I like to move the work to the perimeter of my forge for a couple minutes, so it cools slowly, then pull it out and let it air-cool to room temp.

Thanks for the very generous offer of the 1084; I will PM you.

[Fitzhugh Freeman]

David, I somehow missed your point about kosher salt. I want to go try it right now but wife would really wonder, as would neighbors. Or not, they're all used to such things by now. Maybe I won't need to order tempilsticks just yet.

[David Barnett]

Tempilsticks are okay but it's hard to get the same heat on the streak as the workpiece, especially with a torch as the flame must be kept away from the streak. Extracting the workpiece to test on a magnet can allow a small workpiece to cool too quickly for an accurate reading, so sometimes a little pile of kosher salt in the microforge can help until you're more comfortable gauging heats. Forging very small workpieces can be a little tricky at first because it's so easy to overheat and cooling under the hammer is quite rapid. With practice, you'll find your way.

[Jim Koepke]

Wow, going from marking gauge cutter material to setting up a forge.

One of my gauges has an 6d nail filed and honed to shape.

Another has an old broken drill bit. One side is ground flat and the back side was shaped on a stone.

jtk

[george wilson]

As I mentioned before,if I heat treat the whole length(2") of a letter stamp made from W1,the stamp invariably cracks open the length of the stamp. So,I just harden and draw about 1/2" of the business end of stamps.

[Fitzhugh Freeman]

Wow, going from marking gauge cutter material to setting up a forge.

It's not ADHD, it's woodworking

[george wilson]

Let me mention that I tried Tempilac(not the sticks),back in the 70's. The blasted stuff became very corrosive when it reached melting temp,and really deeply etched a well finished flintlock part I was making. I don't know if the stick variety does that. Just sayin'. Watch out.

For your home woodshop doings,I think that just getting the W1 orange hot will likely meet any expectations you might have. Now,with expensive,pyrometer controlled electric furnace(and years of experience) I can do a bit better. But,all the things I've posted here were made with plane irons,chisels,and other tools that were made with simple means.

[Fitzhugh Freeman]

Interesting, and wow, that must have taken a chunk out of your mood that day. You'd think they'd avoid exactly that: "Here... You can tell the temperature, but your part is screwed."

I am way too colorblind to rely on colors, I'm afraid. I guess I should really try over time anyhow as it may be that I can perceive fine enough gradients to be useful. Color simply rarely registers as something to attend to. It is there but mostly ignored since it has always been unreliable - talking about subconscious levels

Is the salt an old trick or a new one? Purely curious.

Amazing amount of knowledge and inspiration around here.

[Steve Voigt]

I am way too colorblind to rely on colors, I'm afraid.

Have you tried a magnet? It works for me. I'm not color blind, but what looks like cherry red to me is never non-magnetic. Color is pretty subjective.

[Fitzhugh Freeman]

Oh, yeah. I do use a magnet. Color would help as another measure, like when to bother with the magnet (getting better at that regardless) and, for example, with 1084 where they say to get it a shade hotter than nonmagnetic. I've had no problem really when heat treating. Forging is another matter. I end up overheating small things too often.

[Jim-M Campbell]

Please indulge me as I wade into these murky waters if I might......

I am a self-certified unrecognized expert by utilizing three exhaustive google searches and 18 minutes spent looking through two books! :-)

Our club embarked upon making marking knives and marking gauges including making our own blades. We used some stock I picked up at an auction. So..... near as I can tell it is probably some sort of metal.

What I wanted to share was our treating method.

We used a mapp gas torch and an old, long since unusable #4 knock off plane sole.

We heated the plane sole and placed our metal bits on it.

After a few practice pieces, we were pretty reliably able to draw out a beautiful strawish color.

Sure, we violated many conventions and likely upset a few people who actually know what they are doing, but it worked.

This indirect heating method did the trick on some thin stock 1/16" blades.

Fun can be had!

Regards,
Jim