Crazy like a fox, or just the first part?

[Silas Smith]

Before I wire this to my box I wanted to run this configuration by the creek. Like many before, I am trying to fit more tools into a finite space. I've recently upgraded to a J/P (Jet with a Byrd cutter, (in my best Ferris Bueller voice) if you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up) and now I'm building my router into my table saw. Problem is the saw is 220v and the router is 110v, at least it was a problem until someone turned me onto this handy outlet. Look closely and you'll see 110v on the top and 220v on the bottom.

So I went out and bought a heavy duty 10 gauge wire and I'm ready to hook it up. Anything I should be concerned about? I'll have to hardwire it into my box and I plan on running it on the ceiling and dropping down so I don't trip over that fat cord!

[Phil Thien]

Alright, I'll bite.

I see 20-amp receptacles and 10 gauge wire. So are you planning on a 20-amp breaker?

If you are oversizing the wire to minimize voltage drop, and are planning on a 20-amp breaker, I see no problems. If you are planning on a breaker > 20-amps, then I think you will technically not be within code compliance.

I'm sure someone else will come along and correct me if I'm wrong.

[Silas Smith]

Since half of the outlet is 220, I figured 10 gauge was the only way to go. You bring me to a question I hadn't thought of, red and black to 220v breaker, green to bar and white to separate 110v breaker?

for some reason I love this stuff. I've been bit a few times, but wiring yourself is so rewarding.

[Chuck Saunders]

Red and Black are hots and go to breaker, white is neutral and goes to the neutral buss, green is ground and goes to the ground buss. The problem with your setup is that your 110V circuit (white and either red or black) will be protected by a 2 pole breaker though the load is only on 1 pole. This is not desirable.

[Phil Thien]

Red and Black are hots and go to breaker, white is neutral and goes to the neutral buss, green is ground and goes to the ground buss. The problem with your setup is that your 110V circuit (white and either red or black) will be protected by a 2 pole breaker though the load is only on 1 pole. This is not desirable.

I thought that was okay, no different really than an appliance that uses both 220 and 110 from a single 220 breaker?

I don't think there is a code issue with that, is there?

[Ole Anderson]

Since half of the outlet is 220, I figured 10 gauge was the only way to go.

Wire size is based on amperage, not voltage. You can wire a 240 v 15 amp circuit with #14 wire. Typically a 20 amp circuit gets #12 wire, a 30 amp, #10 wire, regardless if it is 120, 240 or 440 volts. A long run with a lot of voltage drop at load will need a heavier wire.

Trying to run both a 120 and 240 volt outlets from the same breaker is problematic, although workable. 120 volt outlet will use the white wire for neutral and either the red or black for hot, the 240 volt outlet will use both the black and red hot wires, so one of the poles of the breaker will be loaded with both the router and table saw. Of course the ground will serve both outlets. Can't tell you if it will be to code.

As mentioned, those are 20 amp receptacles, so you are limited to 20 amp breakers. Good for a 240 volt 3 hp motor.

[Silas Smith]

Is there an issue with over sizing the wires? My thought is that I may find the need to pick up a 5hp something or other in which I could just replace the breaker and receptacle, the cost difference in 10 gauge vs. 12 gauge doesn't justify the time and effort of replacing the wire in my mind.

Also, so, the ground bus and neutral are connected. Does it really make a difference which side they are connected to? I'm sure there is a reason and I've tried to find an answer, but I can't reconcile why it matters. It's probably because all my wiring up to this point has been of the 220 variety, including adding my own sub-panel. I'm sure posts like mine make electricians cringe! One thing is for certain, if we ever sell the house, the sub panel is coming out first. I've seen much worse set ups than mine, but there are always differing opinions on how code is interpreted.

[Phil Thien]

Is there an issue with over sizing the wires? My thought is that I may find the need to pick up a 5hp something or other in which I could just replace the breaker and receptacle, the cost difference in 10 gauge vs. 12 gauge doesn't justify the time and effort of replacing the wire in my mind.

Oversizing the wire is not a problem so long as the receptacle is designed to accommodate the wire size you're using. If the receptacle says 12-gauge max, and you use 10-gauge on it, an inspector could call you out on it. I don't know what the chances of them finding that would be, but...

Of course, you could run 10 to the box and then wire nut a 12 gauge pigtail to the 10, and wire that to the box.

Also, so, the ground bus and neutral are connected. Does it really make a difference which side they are connected to? I'm sure there is a reason and I've tried to find an answer, but I can't reconcile why it matters. It's probably because all my wiring up to this point has been of the 220 variety, including adding my own sub-panel. I'm sure posts like mine make electricians cringe! One thing is for certain, if we ever sell the house, the sub panel is coming out first. I've seen much worse set ups than mine, but there are always differing opinions on how code is interpreted.

I've researched that myself and I guess it all boils down to keeping things neat and tidy. Apparently in some areas electricians are even allowed to run the ground and neutral into a single screw! I know at least a couple of box manufacturers say one wire per screw, and so doing two to a single screw would be (I think) a violation, at least on those boxes.

Everything I've read says that in order to be code compliant, you need to use UL-listed equipment in a manner consistent with the manufacture's specifications. So doing something out of spec. would mean your install would not technically be code compliant. Whether it is found or not is another matter, but I try to observe all the requirements as the rules are for my own safety.

I think the reason manufacturers of those boxes don't want two wires under a single screw is that it could lead to a poor neutral connection.

BTW, I'm neither an electrician or electrical engineer. But it doesn't seem like you're getting much of a response from the usual suspects. I think you should change your thread title to "I need electrical advice." Your current thread title isn't getting their attention.

[Art Mann]

Neutral and ground are not the same thing even if they tie back in to the same bus in the breaker box! The neutral wire provides the current return path for the 120 volt circuit. One should never use the safety ground (green or bare copper) to conduct current. There are some very good reasons to do it like this which I will not go into at this point. The 240 volt circuit doesn't need neutral because the two hot legs provide a return path for the current for each other. Only the two hot wires and the ground should be used on it.

[Phil Thien]

Neutral and ground are not the same thing even if they tie back in to the same bus in the breaker box! The neutral wire provides the current return path for the 120 volt circuit. One should never use the safety ground (green or bare copper) to conduct current. There are some very good reasons to do it like this which I will not go into at this point. The 240 volt circuit doesn't need neutral because the two hot legs provide a return path for the current for each other. Only the two hot wires and the ground should be used on it.

I think everyone understands they aren't the same, and that the ground should be used for carrying current.

The question is one of organizing cables inside the load center.

[Chuck Saunders]

Neutral and Ground are not the same but they are related. The desire is that if anything goes wrong in the operating path that the ground will provide an alternative path. Anytime you use the same buss for both, you are losing one point of separation for the case where the nuetral buss loses connectivity with the neutral (rare, but possible).

Remember that circuit breakers are to protect the house wiring, not your tool, so increasing wire size over breaker rating is not a problem as long as the devices accept that size like Phil was talking about. Increasing breaker rating above wire size tends to result in fire department visits (bad).