Kudos to David Barron and his magnetic dovetail guides

[Darren Brown]

I have David Barrons jig. The first time I used it I achieved tight fitting dovetails off the saw. As to the argument of using a router jig, you can't cut skinny pins with a router if that's your thing. The jig just helps you saw straight. That's it. You still have to accurately measure and mark your joints and chisel out your waste with accuracy to have a good result. There is no nobility in loose or ugly joinery no matter how its created. Sorry.

[Jim Koepke]

Sure, there are ways of repairing such mistakes, but I would always know the repairs were there.

The real trick is knowing they are there but not being able to find them.

I showed the mistakes on something I made for a woman to her. She didn't care since she was very happy with the overall piece.

So our errors and fixes bother us, but in the end it is usually only us the makers that care to any extent. It may be best to just let them be learning experiences.

jtk

[bob blakeborough]

If dt jigs make one happy than go for it, but in all reality, go back and look at the dovetails of the best craftsman of years past, and one cannot say that perfect dovetails are the mark of a good craftsman. They almost always looked pretty ragged compared to what people today think they should look like. People tend to overthink it, and with some regular simple practice, proficiency comes...

[Kees Heiden]

I don't believe for a second that a jig helps to build muscle memory. For my part, use what ever jig you like, but don't expect it to help freehand techniques.

[Brian Holcombe]

Suffering through and repairing ameteur work is what will help you to become a worthwhile craftsman, in my opinion. The only way to learn how to cut well with a saw is to make many cuts with that saw, then file it, then make even more cuts.

[Simon MacGowen]

In a world of accepted mediocrity, craftsmanship is endangered. We should be doing anything we can to encourage a next generation of people who strive to do their best.

Many people give up trying to hand cut dovetails out of sheer frustration. I see nothing wrong with jigs such as David Barron's. They lower the frustration level while building correct muscle memory. They support a "can do" attitude. Do we want people to succeed or quit in frustration? I wish I had started with a jig such as this.

David Charlesworth has said that he has poor sawing technique and therefore uses jigs and his bandsaw to cut his dovetails. Should his craftsmanship be questioned?

Jigs are appropriate at all levels IMHO.


Scott in Montana

Hey Scott,

I agree jigs help achieve results and lower frustrations in many cases. My point is really about the learning process: is the objective to get a joint made or to develop the sawing skill? No one suggests using jigs or power tools is tantamount to poor craftsmanship. All giants like Sam Maloof, Tage Frid, etc. used power tools, for example. The current debate is not much different from whether to use a sharpening jig or to develop free-hand skills. Many use both.

As few others have pointed out, feel free to use David's jig or LV's, but don't expect that would help you saw better once you take the jig out of the equation. The more one relies on using a saw guide, the more one is less likely to get out of the comfort zone and PRACTICE sawing free hand. Of course, there is nothing wrong about it as long as one understands it really isn't the same thing as cutting dovetails all by hand without using jigs. At the place I teach, jigs are used but not in any dovetail classes, or for that matter, in any M & T classes. We even do the layout with a sliding bevel.

Simon

[Scott Stafford]

I don't believe for a second that a jig helps to build muscle memory. For my part, use what ever jig you like, but don't expect it to help freehand techniques.

Please don't tell the professional golfers, baseball players, billiard players, and numerous other athletes that their jigs don't work... they might lose confidence in their game. :O)


Scott in Montana

[Sean Hughto]

angels sometimes dance jigs on the heads of pins

versus angles secured by jigs for tails and pins

debate

[David Barnett]

I don't believe for a second that a jig helps to build muscle memory. For my part, use what ever jig you like, but don't expect it to help freehand techniques.

Ashamed of his poorly-sawn tails,
He used magnets and templates and rails,
But because of these rigs,
This reliance on jigs,
Never rose above hammer and nails.

[Steve Voigt]

…is the objective to get a joint made or to develop the sawing skill?

I think this is really the key point. I'm not interested in acquiring furniture; I'm interested in acquiring skills. I've already built lots of furniture.
However, for lots of people, the goal is to build the piece, by whatever means. If that's your goal---and it's a totally worthy one--then jig away, I say. If your goal is to develop skills, put the jig aside. One is not morally superior to the other; it's just a matter of priorities.

[Steve Voigt]

Ashamed of his poorly-sawn tails,
He used magnets and templates and rails,
But because of these rigs,
This reliance on jigs,
Never rose above hammer and nails.

Too bad Karl Castle just retired. I'm imagining him reading this on Sunday morning.

[george wilson]

I think people should just learn skills. We never had all these jigs when I was learning skills. Nor did our fore fathers.

REALLY making things requires the mastering of skills. If we don't develop them,we may as well make furniture by snapping Lego blocks together.

Speaking of "Workmanship of risk" this post is the "post of risk". I am pretty sure I'm going to get flamed by the jig users. But,that's o.k.,at least I learned to work without them.

[Sam Stephens]

I think anyone who uses a guide is a cheater and their furniture should be hacked to pieces and burned!

Seriously, who cares (apparently people here do). Glad people find solace and some peace of mind in their tools/jigs etc.

Sam

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I've no beef with people making whatever choice they want in regards to any sort of jigs. I want whoever's making something to be happy making it and get there however they want.

I'm not convinced that a jig like this actually helps your free-hand sawing, however. Perhaps a properly done study with a decent sample size could prove this one way or the other, however.

My initial instinct is that it's a bit like training wheels on a bike - you have to do two things to move forward on a bike; balance it, and pedal it to propel yourself. With a child just learning, the keeping the bike upright is a lot harder skill for them to master than the turning a crank. The real roughy is learning to do both at once.

A lot of times, you put a kid on a bike with training wheels, they learn to zoom around real fast, but they're really just learning how to pedal. That's not the hard skill to learn. They aren't using the training wheels as a "safety" from falling over, they're using them as a crutch, and when you get around to removing the trainers, it's like starting over. This leads to the idea of the pedal-less push bikes that you see more of for young kids now. (Although I would be tempted to just buy the kid an appropriate bike and remove the drive train while they're learning) Kids scoot around by pushing, but they're learning the balance skill, and they can catch themselves because they're not trying to combine it with the pedaling skill. Learning the harder skill first before trying to combine the two in such a manner that generates risk seems an easier approach.

And that's kind of how I see these saw guides sometimes - you've really removed the harder skill, the aligning, and keeping plumb, and such, and begin to focus on the easier skill, sawing back and forth. I'm not sure the jig itself really helps your muscle memory, unless you're taking a much more focused approach to practicing.

Maybe I'm just seeing it wrong, I don't know.

It also makes me think of sharpening jigs - I have some, I use them at times, but the sharpening jig didn't really make me better at freehand sharpening. It did help me realize what "really sharp" really was, but with joinery, I don't really need the help to visualize that.

Again though - that's just my rambling on these things and their benefit to free-hand skills; not their value to a person who decides that's how they want to use them.

[george wilson]

I don't think it is up to us to "care" how other woodworkers we don't even know,how to do their work. I just think it is better for people to develop real skills instead of relying on crutches. They will end up being better craftsmen,and will have legitimate senses of accomplishment. But,it's up to them which path they want to take.