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Thread: Heating a shop that's not insulated

  1. #1
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    Heating a shop that's not insulated

    It's spring so this is not an issue I have to worry about for awhile, but I'm still looking into it. I'm in a shed shop which I plan on being temporary as in a few years, so I don't want to put any insulation or elaborate heating systems in. In my climate rusting from air moisture isn't a huge issue. My shed is about 8'x20', a bit small but works. This past winter before I had wood working equipment, I would use a 15,000 BTU tank top propane heater when I would work on my motorcycle. It wasn't bad, I measured when the outside air temperature was 15 degrees, and after a few hours it brought the shed up to 35 degrees measuring in the non direct heat. The primary issue I've heard about propane is that it adds way more moisture to the air than the humidity ever brings; I've heard guys say they put on their propane heater for a few hours and it left a coat of rust on their machines... I also think electric would be inefficient. Maybe I would be better off bundling up and using no heat, and bring my materials inside the house for finish. I plan on using my shop heavily in the winter time because most my hobbies revolve on outside stuff and gardening; I typically do absolutely nothing in the winter.

  2. #2
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    if you are going to be there a few years, insulate.

  3. #3
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    This may hurt a bit......and isn't the intent.First thing to decide when designing/building a shop;Is this a "total loss system"?Meaning,are you ready for it to burn to the ground?Yes/no...has so much impact on just about every design and decision that I could write a book on just this one aspect.And don't be runnin off thinking that a TL(total loss) shop is not a bonafide proposition.It makes a LOT of sense.....and is increasing daily,as insurance co's do more and more to deny coverage.

    Your heating system is at the heart of the matter,right along with the electrical panel and DC.......you see,it's a downward spiral of sorts.Every "excuse" you give me for why your shop "has" to meet code or some self implied hurdle or mandate....I(your insurer),will just keep digging deeper and deeper into why you're being denied coverage.

    Insulation is the cheapest,bestest thing you can do for a shop....period.Heck,with enough of it,your equipment heat will help warm the place.
    Last edited by Brian W Smith; 05-20-2014 at 8:27 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian W Smith View Post
    This may hurt a bit......and isn't the intent.First thing to decide when designing/building a shop;Is this a "total loss system"?Meaning,are you ready for it to burn to the ground?Yes/no...has so much impact on just about every design and decision that I could write a book on just this one aspect.And don't be runnin off thinking that a TL(total loss) shop is not a bonafide proposition.It makes a LOT of sense.....and is increasing daily,as insurance co's do more and more to deny coverage.

    Your heating system is at the heart of the matter,right along with the electrical panel and DC.......you see,it's a downward spiral of sorts.Every "excuse" you give me for why your shop "has" to meet code or some self implied hurdle or mandate....I(your insurer),will just keep digging deeper and deeper into why you're being denied coverage.

    Insulation is the cheapest,bestest thing you can do for a shop....period.Heck,with enough of it,your equipment heat will help warm the place.
    I really don't know what you are trying to say here. I assume you are saying that heat in here would hurt my property insurance?

  5. #5
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    2 things. If you have an open flame you have carbon monoxide...bad. insulate and use electrical space heaters. I heated my 24x24 all winter in Michigan and it increased my bill by 30 buck for the worst month.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Yadfar View Post
    I really don't know what you are trying to say here. I assume you are saying that heat in here would hurt my property insurance?
    I had the same thought. Adding insulation will reduce the amount of energy needed to reach a comfortable working temp. If the shop is temporary then I would look for ways to recycle the insulation when I am ready to tear down and build the permanent shop. However, I know from personal experience, that temporary sometimes becomes permanent as other priorities get in the way.

    Heating with open flame inside a building with any fuel does add moisture and gases to the atmosphere which can lead to problems such as rust and suffocation. My preference would be for a vented heat system. For electric I would go with a heat pump system in the area where the OP lives. The split systems they have now are quite efficient and work down to much lower temps than the older ones did. The up side is the system could be reused in the permanent shop once that becomes a reality.
    Lee Schierer
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  7. #7
    +1 on insulating. Without insulation you'd need a much larger heater, and your fuel costs are going to be ridiuclous. I'd bet the insulation would pay for itself in a year.

    Once its insulated, just get a mini-split heat pump. For that small a space you could get a very small unit, and you'd get AC in the summer.

  8. #8
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    I may insulate. For a 9x20 shed, I may be able to keep the cost under $1000 which would be my goal using fiberglass insulation and 1/2" osb. With the doors, I would hope to get away with keeping them, as I have 3, just adding fiberglass insulation to them and using weather stripping. Windows would probably be the most costly. For the floor I may make something similar to a SIP panel: throw some thin foam panels over the existing floor and put new plywood over it

    My my big question though: If I insulated and heated the shed, would I still want the copula and ridge vent of top for ventilation?
    Last edited by Michael Yadfar; 05-20-2014 at 9:44 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Yadfar View Post
    My my big question though: If I insulated and heated the shed, would I still want the copula and ridge vent of top for ventilation?
    I would close off the ceiling and let the vent clear the hot air out of the "attic"
    Lee Schierer
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  10. #10
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    I think you could do it for A LOT cheaper than a grand. I just looked at CL Philly and saw goobs of insulation for cheap. I have a 24x24 and it didn't cost me that much.
    Do or do not, there is no try.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Nagle View Post
    I think you could do it for A LOT cheaper than a grand. I just looked at CL Philly and saw goobs of insulation for cheap. I have a 24x24 and it didn't cost me that much.
    Yea I think so too. I'll probably create a new thread about this once I sit down and make a plan, but insulation is fairly cheap and osb is $9 a sheet so I think I can keep it well under $1000. I looked at windows and I can probably find good windows for around $100 each, and I only have two windows. Only issue is if I decide to replace the 4 doors, that would be very expensive, but I believe I can recycle the doors

  12. #12
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    Insulate!

    My shop is 30' x 24'. I put R-19 in the walls, R-40 in the ceiling. I share a common gas meter with our home. We saw virtually little or no increase in heating expenses when I brought the shop gas heater online.

    It's safer working in a heated shop. You don't have to wear long sleeves.
    Ken

    So much to learn, so little time.....

  13. #13
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    I used 1-1/2" foil faced foam for insulation on the exterior and doors which allowed using 2X for lath. The roof is 4" (~R-30) so that reduces heat loss significantly. My windows are single glazed but have bronze weatherstrip. While I designed using that approach, the insulation could have been a retrofit. I figured I could use plastic on the windows if the heat loss was too great.

    My heat source uses outside air for combustion - and propane for fuel - and I think that's important for keeping down the moisture. I don't have a corrosion issue. For me, a comfortable working temperature is 55° to 60°F and my furnace and insulation have no trouble reaching or maintaining that temperature ... I do drop the heat back to sub-40° when not in use. The boxes used for pulling in outside air are not much more expensive than the required thimble if used without ... though the heating units themselves are a bit more expensive. When investigating heat there were many used radiant systems for sale at attractive prices. I was tempted, but they just didn't fit my configuration.

    Someone had mentioned elsewhere the sound impact of single versus double glazed and that might be an even more important factor in deciding to upgrade.

  14. #14
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    For years I've used 250 watt incandescent heat lamps for heating and lighting. I have some fluorescents too for warm days.

    I use 8 heat lamps above my benches. My shop is 20x30 with 11' ceilings and uninsulated. When it's 40F outside,it gets 70F to 80F around the bench area's in less than an hour. Then I turn off every other lamp and it stays around 65F. At 10F outside I have had up to 20 heatlamps on and it gets above 60F in the whole shop and very bright!

    The corners of the shop stay cool but that's where I'm most active and need less heat. The heat is mostly for glue drying and comfort at the benches. You will want to wear a cap if you stand directly under a lamp to long,the 250's get real hot if your close.

    An added plus is the heat lamps last much longer than standard incandescents and you get light and heat for the same dollar. Another thing I like is all the cast iron tops are warm. It's a nice color light too, I like it more than fluorescents alone.

    Last winter I used less 250 watt heat lamps. I've used more plain 90 or 75 watt
    incandescents spread out. They provide more even heat and light,but not the intense quick heat of the 250's.
    "Whether you think you can, or you think you can’t - you’re right."
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Yadfar View Post
    I looked at windows and I can probably find good windows for around $100 each, and I only have two windows.
    If you aren't fussy about size. Check your local Big box stores for closeouts or demo windows. Sometimes they get special orders wrong and will sell the errors pretty cheap.
    Lee Schierer
    USNA '71
    Go Navy!

    My advice, comments and suggestions are free, but it costs money to run the site. If you found something of value here please give a little something back by becoming a contributor! Please Contribute

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