How many of you have done this?

[Wayne Jolly]

I am currently building a router table. It is my first, probably my last, and the very first project I have made where I drew up detailed plans in advance. Everything has (more or less) been going great, but I have had to tweak a few dimensions just a tad. Today I started to install the drawers I made for it. It is a "Norm" styled table but I made it a little wider on the right side. Anyway, In the upper portion is a space where I laid out three drawers. The problem is, I drew up 19" of drawer depth for an 18" tall opening. &^%#

Fortunately this will be a fairly easy problem to rememdy since the bottom drawer was 2 1/2" deeper than the two over it. All I have to do is take about an inch or so off the top of that one and then there will be plenty of room. I might go a little more, or even make them all the same depth to give a little more space between each drawer too.

The "more or less" mentioned above was a good one, and I'm a little embarrassed to nention it. Maybe someone else can learn from it. I looked at, and measured, the slides on a few of my older projects, and one commercially made product (albeit a 40 year old one), and all of the drawer slides were 3/8" wide. I made all of the drawers, all 9 of them, counting on new slides to be 3/8" wide. Wouldn't you kow that now they are all 1/2" wide. No way around that one, I had to remake all of the drawers. Moral? Get the dang slides first!


Wayne

[Sam Murdoch]

"Moral? Get the dang slides first!"

Yes, yes and yes!!!!! Get all your dang hardware before you start building - ESPECIALLY if you have never used that slide/hinge/pull/cabinet insert etc. before. This is a classic way to ruin an otherwise great project. Ask me how I know and how many times I have violated my own rule and then…. Don't make me tell you again

Don't ASSUME about hardware. OK- I agree with Wayne. Good that you have an easy to correct situation Wayne.

[Wayne Jolly]

Just as a side note - the material I used to make the drawers was some of the WORST stuff I have ever seen. A few years ago I bought three sheets of 1/2" "cabinet grade Birch plywood" from a local vendor. That is if you consider a 2 hour drive to be local. I had it stored in my garage shop since I bought it. Anyway, I finally got around to using it for something. The drawer parts I cut from the first sheet were . . . OK I guess for what I was doing. Getting a smooth, spliter free cut was impossible. I then used my Rockler dovetail jig to create half-blind dovetails for the joinery. The sockets cut ok, but the pins . . . HooLee cow were they bad. There were no pins that had all of the plywood laminations intact. On most of them, I'd say an average of 50% of the laminations took flight. This was using a newly sharpened dovetail bit in my router, and it didn't matter which direction I routed but climb cutting was least bad.

Then there was the second sheet I used. Or didn't use. Before I made my first cut I noticed that the plywood itself was delaminating on one edge. I thinned out some Titebond III and poured it into the split, clamped and weighted it, and let it dry. Then I cut 8" off of one end. It was still delaminated on the inside edge. Long story short - The plywood was delaminated all the way through the 8' sheet. Only about 4" of the other 3 sides was keeping it together. That whole sheet went to trash.

The third sheet was at least all together. But getting nice dovetails was still almost impossible. I say almost because I finally found a way. I had to stand the piece on edge with the side I was going to dovetail up. Then flood it with CA until I could see the glue had soaked the depth of the cut and then accelerate it. Only then did I get some good dovetails.

But still, these drawers wont' be around long, and I am going to have to remake them all for a third time with some better wood. I didn't even clean up any glue squeeze out, or sand anything. I just slapped them together until I can get some better plywood. Or wood wood. Maybe I can rebuild them with Poplar or something.

Wayne

[John Schweikert]

Regarding the plywood chip-out when routing dovetails. I have had the same issue when I was using some high quality marine grade ply that was laying around, no voids and very nice laminations, but the outer ply or two would chip or fly off with a Whiteside dovetail bit on the Keller jig I have. An easy solution was to put a thin sacrificial piece (1/4" ply) on the face of the main piece to act as a splinter guard. Works great, adds an extra step but for quality dovetails in plywood, it can be necessary. Dovetails are really intended to be used with soft/hard woods. Many ways to make drawers and dovetails is not always needed or warranted, but good for practicing with.

Just about any mention I have seen online or in magazines always references a 1/2" width per each slide. That's pretty common and has been my experience in making drawers and buying slides. Having hardware first is always the best plan.

I'm building a boat and before I got any wood, epoxy or fiberglass, I bought most all the lights, hatches, bow eye, cleats, outboard etc. first so I could understand if any special circumstances would be needed for that hardware to work to the plan. It's not always just a matter of bolting or screwing something on after the fact and expecting it work.

[Peter Quinn]

I am currently building a router table. It is my first, probably my last, and the very first project I have made where I drew up detailed plans in advance. Everything has (more or less) been going great, but I have had to tweak a few dimensions just a tad. Today I started to install the drawers I made for it. It is a "Norm" styled table but I made it a little wider on the right side. Anyway, In the upper portion is a space where I laid out three drawers. The problem is, I drew up 19" of drawer depth for an 18" tall opening. &^%#

Fortunately this will be a fairly easy problem to rememdy since the bottom drawer was 2 1/2" deeper than the two over it. All I have to do is take about an inch or so off the top of that one and then there will be plenty of room. I might go a little more, or even make them all the same depth to give a little more space between each drawer too.

The "more or less" mentioned above was a good one, and I'm a little embarrassed to nention it. Maybe someone else can learn from it. I looked at, and measured, the slides on a few of my older projects, and one commercially made product (albeit a 40 year old one), and all of the drawer slides were 3/8" wide. I made all of the drawers, all 9 of them, counting on new slides to be 3/8" wide. Wouldn't you kow that now they are all 1/2" wide. No way around that one, I had to remake all of the drawers. Moral? Get the dang slides first!


Wayne

I made a pile of drawers once and only subtracted the width of one slide from the opening. So 10" opening......should have been 9" drawer......made them 9 1/2". Throw them out? No sir, I let the slides into the drawer sides 1/4", they were 5/8" drawer sides, worked great, actually looks like I planned it and my drawer boxes grew by 1/2" to the interior.. Win win. If you only missed by 1/4" I would have dadoed channels 1/8" into the drawer sides and saved the boxes. Maybe not for the show kitchen, but definitely for the shop. I guess you should always get your hardware first, or at least have the spec sheet for what you are buying, but in my case it doesn't matter much when the brain is off anyway.

[Mel Fulks]

Agree with Sam. Even when the catalog gives all dimensions sometimes the stuff has been changed a little.

[Dave Zellers]

I will never understand why anyone would want to make dovetail joints with plywood.

[Wayne Jolly]

John - Oddly enough, it was the outer plys that stayed. It was the inner plys that came out. As for the width of the slides, I measured two different sets of Euro slides. One from a project I made years ago, and one from my entertainment center that is now probably 30 years old at least. I also had a bunch of the side-mount ball bearing slides of assorted lengths laying around that came from a computer center that closed down. All of these slides were also 3/8" wide except for one set which was 3/4" wide. The only reason I didn't use some of them was because they were only 3/4 extension and I wanted full-extension. It was quite dis-heartening to go to all of the hardware borgs (orange, blue, green, and red) to find that they are now all 1/2" wide. I guess I should have known that the capitolist pigs would have changed everything (again).

Dave - I was using the plywood because it was there and needed to be used. The dovetails were because I had the jig and it had been set up and was almost ready to go. Shoulda been relatively quick needing only a couple of tests to get the bit height right. Also dovetails are strong and this is a shop drawer that will probably get a lot more abuse than say furniture drawers.

Peter - If my drawers were made from 3/4" thick material I certainly would have done that, but since my material was only 1/2" (ok 15/32") to start with, taking an extra 1/8 off of each side (or more likely a 1/8" dado) meant that any screws used to attach the slides would be sticking into the drawer. I could have ground them off, but what the heck. I actually did that with one drawer and it just seemed like it was too flimsy. Besides, I had extra material and time so . . .

Wayne

[Rick Potter]

Wayne,

It sounds like my everyday life. I will admit it, I am a simple do it yourselfer, posing as a woodworker.

Rick P

[Erik Christensen]

I did something similar when I built a kitchen cart with end grain butcher block top. I designed the case and drawers then decided to upgrade the undermount slides to heavy duty. time comes to install the drawer slides and.... the heavy duty slides are 1" longer and won't fit inside the case far enough to have the drawer fronts be inset - lucky for me they fit just barely for overlay drawers so that is how it got built . whenever someone compliments me on the cart I just say thanks but I know how bad I screwed up.

Yep - get hardware first is the best way to avoid nasty surprises

[Chris Padilla]

I will never understand why anyone would want to make dovetail joints with plywood.

It is good practice and fun perhaps...especially with backer boards to negate the potential chip out!

I once used a lock miter bit on some plywood to conceal the plies on an exposed edge. The horizontal route went fine but the vertical was a nightmare with mega chunks of ply blowing out like shrapnel. I still glued the edge together but the corner required a piece of hardwood to fix it.

[Peter Kelly]

Just as a side note - the material I used to make the drawers was some of the WORST stuff I have ever seen. A few years ago I bought three sheets of 1/2" "cabinet grade Birch plywood" from a local vendor. That is if you consider a 2 hour drive to be local. I had it stored in my garage shop since I bought it. Anyway, I finally got around to using it for something. The drawer parts I cut from the first sheet were . . . OK I guess for what I was doing. Getting a smooth, spliter free cut was impossible. I then used my Rockler dovetail jig to create half-blind dovetails for the joinery. The sockets cut ok, but the pins . . . HooLee cow were they bad. There were no pins that had all of the plywood laminations intact. On most of them, I'd say an average of 50% of the laminations took flight. This was using a newly sharpened dovetail bit in my router, and it didn't matter which direction I routed but climb cutting was least bad.

Then there was the second sheet I used. Or didn't use. Before I made my first cut I noticed that the plywood itself was delaminating on one edge. I thinned out some Titebond III and poured it into the split, clamped and weighted it, and let it dry. Then I cut 8" off of one end. It was still delaminated on the inside edge. Long story short - The plywood was delaminated all the way through the 8' sheet. Only about 4" of the other 3 sides was keeping it together. That whole sheet went to trash.

The third sheet was at least all together. But getting nice dovetails was still almost impossible. I say almost because I finally found a way. I had to stand the piece on edge with the side I was going to dovetail up. Then flood it with CA until I could see the glue had soaked the depth of the cut and then accelerate it. Only then did I get some good dovetails.

But still, these drawers wont' be around long, and I am going to have to remake them all for a third time with some better wood. I didn't even clean up any glue squeeze out, or sand anything. I just slapped them together until I can get some better plywood. Or wood wood. Maybe I can rebuild them with Poplar or something.

Wayne

Sounds like that faux-Baltic Birch China ply garbage. You'll be amazed at the non-wood items one finds between the veneer sheets when it delaminates...