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Thread: Machining wood versus hand planing for tonal quality

  1. #16
    Apparently bowyers used to be very superstitious as well, but a bunch of research was done and discussed and reproduced and published, culminating in the Traditional Bowyers Bible series (now up to 4 volumes).

    But, how far/fast an arrow is propelled is much easier to measure and far less ambiguous and emotionally charged than the tone of a musical instrument or whether or no a fly rod helps one fish.

  2. #17
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    I am not a fly rod builder,and my recipe was given to me by a guy who is,for whatever that's worth.

    During the Vietnam war,builders apparently had to hoard their supplies of that bamboo.

  3. #18
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    It was a curiosity- like the "is there life on Mars" debate, except without sending billions of dollars to find out there isn't.

    Chris- I got to visit Torres' shop when I hiked the Camino de Santiago across Spain. It was an awesome thing to see the guitars in their collection.

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by george wilson View Post
    Are you using air dried or KILN DRIED wood(already subjected to heat)?
    The latest FWW has an article about putting wood in the oven in your kitchen.

    In another article they discuss moisture content and include images of the USA showing MC changes for indoor wood between the summer and winter. There's one section in western Kansas, that touches Oklahoma and Texas to the south and Nebraska to the north, where there is close to zero MC seasonal change for indoor wood. Seems like a good place to build instruments.

  5. #20
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    I would guess you would have a better chance of getting some compression hardening on the surface with a machine than by hand plane. The machine hardening producing a brighter more live reflective toned instrument. Then top it with a more natural thin matte laquer finish (actually the same as gloss except the addition of a flattening agent).... Then charge more for the easier to build instrument.

  6. #21
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    Just choose harder spruce. That's what I like.

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by William Adams View Post
    Apparently bowyers used to be very superstitious as well, but a bunch of research was done and discussed and reproduced and published, culminating in the Traditional Bowyers Bible series (now up to 4 volumes).

    But, how far/fast an arrow is propelled is much easier to measure and far less ambiguous and emotionally charged than the tone of a musical instrument or whether or no a fly rod helps one fish.

    Superstition is a human condition and it has been the cataylst for a lot of nonesense, musical instrument building practices being one of the more benign instances, war and religion however...

  8. #23
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    I stay away from guitar forums because they are so full of nonsense and know it all kit builders. You'd think being with a group of similarly interested guys would be nice,but no.

  9. #24
    I've been considering building an acoustic guitar. Most of what I'm learning now has come from articles in the two GAL magazines I have received. I've read a number of times the importance of tonal qualities in the wood one chooses when making an acoustic guitar. One luthier said the most important decision you make when building an acoustic guitar is in the wood you choose for the top of the guitar. That seems to be an across the board attitude toward acoustic instruments - that the wood must "sing".

    What I have not yet seen is how these artists identify and mill the wood to achieve that goal. I know from working on the bass build that koa is a very difficult wood to plane yet it is one of the woods I see mentioned fairly often in GAL articles. I've sharpened my plane irons with a razor's edge to 8000 grit and I still have problems. When imagining milling wood for an acoustic guitar, I've seen myself resorting to a drum sander instead of planing when working with difficult woods. What I don't know is how sanding to final thickness might affect the sound.

  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by george wilson View Post
    Just choose harder spruce. That's what I like.
    I would agree. Although red cedar classic is my favourite nylon string guitar top material.

  11. #26
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    Cedar will never have the longevity of spruce. The cedar myth started when Ramirez,being cheap by nature,bought up a bunch of old,large cedar mine timbers,and had them quarter sawn into guitar top wood. I have made a few guitars with it. They are too dark sounding to suit me. Cedar does not have the inherent strength of spruce,or the ability spruce has to rapidly spread vibration.

    Ramirez himself has been described to me by a friend who knew him as hardly being able to cross the street by himself. His father was the great builder. The modern shop employs several good luthiers who make the guitars. They are permitted to use a cheap looking rubber stamp with their initials on it to stamp on the neck block of guitars they make. My friend,back in the early 60's,was a commercial pilot. He'd fly to Spain,and while there,buy a Ramirez to re sell. They were cheap in Spain at that time. Ramirez would obligingly fill out a receipt that said the guitar was bought very cheap,to help get it through customs without big taxes.

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by george wilson View Post
    Cedar will never have the longevity of spruce. The cedar myth started when Ramirez,being cheap by nature,bought up a bunch of old,large cedar mine timbers,and had them quarter sawn into guitar top wood. I have made a few guitars with it. They are too dark sounding to suit me. Cedar does not have the inherent strength of spruce,or the ability spruce has to rapidly spread vibration.

    Ramirez himself has been described to me by a friend who knew him as hardly being able to cross the street by himself. His father was the great builder. The modern shop employs several good luthiers who make the guitars. They are permitted to use a cheap looking rubber stamp with their initials on it to stamp on the neck block of guitars they make. My friend,back in the early 60's,was a commercial pilot. He'd fly to Spain,and while there,buy a Ramirez to re sell. They were cheap in Spain at that time. Ramirez would obligingly fill out a receipt that said the guitar was bought very cheap,to help get it through customs without big taxes.
    Cedar certainly doesn't have the playing life span of spruce but I find that it sounds far better right out of the gate. Pretty subjective stuff I'll admit but I'd take a cedar classic over a spruce any day, of course it's all in the ears and mine like cedar. Now plywood's got real tone that lasts forever...

  13. #28
    First off, I'm a hobbyist.
    George is a great luthier, and his word should have more weight.

    Personally, I really like cedar and the spruce I favor tends to be considered ugly.
    I prefer properly air dried wood (I feel that it's more stable), but properly kiln dried wood works.
    I prefer quartered wood over flat--for stability, not sound.
    I prefer split braces--for strength, not sound.
    However, I have some Adirondack spruce from 85 years ago that is stiff as all getout, brittle, and extremely light...almost like cedar on steroids.

    Wood is an interesting material...don't you just love it?

    -Matt

    ps. George, I think my maestro agrees with you regarding Ramirez...something about being a talentless prick. On the other hand, he has respect for Fleta (ugly, but well put together) and Hauser (first class craftsmanship, but unforgiving). Did you ever know of Randall Angella?

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