Grizzly vs ClearVue cyclones

[Art Mann]

As I recall, the problem was with the filter assembly, not the blower or cyclone. There was speculation that perhaps the filters were not assembled correctly or something but I don't recall any explanation.

I think it is possible that the leaks weren't entirely stopped or the filter assembly wasn't done correctly and that caused the high residual dust readings. As I recall, the system uses Wynn Environmental filters and those units have been tested and verified elsewhere to be good. What surprised me was the relatively poor air flow for a machine that has a 5 hp motor. Air flow is easy to measure and small leaks (assembly issues) are irrelevant. Many people regard the Clearvue as the gold standard for hobby woodworking but I have never seen any definitive tests from anyone other than the manufacturer or designer that verified this conclusion. I have come to believe that the basic blower/cyclone design must not be very good.

[Alan Bienlein]

I think it is possible that the leaks weren't entirely stopped or the filter assembly wasn't done correctly and that caused the high residual dust readings. As I recall, the system uses Wynn Environmental filters and those units have been tested and verified elsewhere to be good. What surprised me was the relatively poor air flow for a machine that has a 5 hp motor. Air flow is easy to measure and small leaks (assembly issues) are irrelevant. Many people regard the Clearvue as the gold standard for hobby woodworking but I have never seen any definitive tests from anyone other than the manufacturer or designer that verified this conclusion. I have come to believe that the basic blower/cyclone design must not be very good.

See this thread for some measurements of a Pentz designed cyclone.http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...tem&highlight=

[Art Mann]

You know, I had forgotten all about that thread, even though I commented on it. That was an informative post. I know you built your machine from Pentz plans but you used an 8 inch inlet. The CV1800 uses a 6 inch inlet. The maximum air flow per their specification is 1440 CFM, which is much less than what you are seeing. It looks like your machine is performing more like the CVMAX. That machine costs more than the one Wood magazine tested.

[Michael Stockdale]

I am currently reading everything I can find about the cyclones available on the market today... I am hoping to install a 3hp (minimum) in my small shop within the next 2-4 months. I've already decided that I'm not going for the ClearVue because of the plastic and mdf construction, but I am considering building a Pentz design on my own... Of course, like most... I tend to associate cost with quality... though I realize that is not always accurate. Both the Oneida 3hp Super Dust Gorilla and the PRO1500 are very attractive, and one of them may ultimately be my decision. That said, the Grizzly GO441 looks like the most economical decision hands-down, especially when you consider shipping costs. And, everyone who owns one or has direct knowledge of them, seems to speak highly of them. My concerns center around the less than ideal filter stack included with the Grizzly, and the not so stellar quality control issues Grizzly seems to have with some of their products (typical of imports). I've already looked at Wynn filters, and I can add a stack of their 18" nano filters for less than $500... still coming in less than the Oneida Pro unit.

I know I have yet to ask a real question... Just looking for some confirmation from someone as to the Grizzly unit's quality. I plan on this being a "for the rest of my days" type decision (maybe 20-25 more years), so I would rather do it right the first time. Any inputs are welcome...

Michael

Lugoff, SC

[David Kumm]

While I'm not as big a fan of the Oneida cyclone design compared to the CV or even the Grizzly ( Oneida's sheet metal work is good ), I do think they use the best motor of the three. A DC motor works hard, the hardest of all your motors, so if longevity is an issue you have to look at that. I outgrew my 3 hp and then outgrew my 5 hp so it is hard for me to relate to a system lasting that long though. Dave

[Michael Stockdale]

David - Understand the design concerns... I have actually thought about buying an Oneida design and adding an "air ramp" before assembling/installing... That seems to be the major difference between their older design and the Pentz/Grizzly units. Yes, I understand that the inlet is not sloped properly to align with said air ramp, but I can't imagine the differences in efficiency being that great. Maybe I am mistaken...

Michael

Lugoff, SC

[Steve Milito]

I know I have yet to ask a real question... Just looking for some confirmation from someone as to the Grizzly unit's quality. I plan on this being a "for the rest of my days" type decision (maybe 20-25 more years), so I would rather do it right the first time. Any inputs are welcome...

I don't see any quality issues with my Grizzly. Sheet metal work is fine. The welds are good, probably wouldn't meet 'food grade' standards, but they don't need to. I've never seen an Oneida but my Griz was significantly less expensive.

[Michael Stockdale]

Steve - Thanks... And, I agree... It's basically a big vaccum, not an aircraft. I am trying to talk myself into getting the Grizzly... Just not quite there yet.

Michael

Lugoff, SC

[John Huds0n]

If you are looking in the $1,600 to $2,000 range - take a look at the 3 hp JDS

http://jdstools.com/3hpcyclone3100-c...collector.aspx

It comes with a rf remote and the drum. I have had mine since the first of the year and I am very pleased with it. I will say that this is one of the shorter cyclones at 86", but that is one of the primary reasons that I bought it. I was seriously considering the ClearVue, but I just didn't have the ceiling height where I wanted to put it, and again the mdf/plastic construction was not impressive

I had originally planned on permanently mounting it and running ductwork, but I have found that since I got it - I actually like being able to move it around.

I found it to be a quality unit - but there is one drawback with a compact cyclone like this. Some of the 'fines' do make it into the filter side, but JDS has an automatic cleaner. Once the unit is powered off, a short time later what I call the 'beater' motor runs which turns a flapper mechanism to knock the fines out of the filter into it's own separate catch bag. The drawback is when the beater motor runs, it can be loud and annoying

I believe the JDS and similar Laguna cyclone are made in the same factory

[David Kumm]

Michael, the helical baffle is the bigger deal than the sloped inlet but it really only is an issue if you are running a widebelt or drum sander with cartridges. CV mimics commercial cyclone design but all of the above will keep big chips out of the filters. With 3-5 hp systems it is more important to get the pipe sizing right. Don't cheap out on undersized pipe and short radius ells. Good place to put extra $$. Dave

[Michael Stockdale]

Planning on running 7" mains with 6" drops, only reducing to 4" if absoluely necessary... I guess if I buy the Grizzly, I will have to adapt the 8" to 7" at some point...

Michael

Lugoff, SC

[Wade Lippman]

If you are looking in the $1,600 to $2,000 range - take a look at the 3 hp JDS

http://jdstools.com/3hpcyclone3100-c...collector.aspx

I had the JDS because it was short and I had a 90" ceiling. It worked okay, but dust bin cover isn't very good. Also I found the drum cleaner to be really obnoxious. I sold it when I moved and got a Grizzly that I like much more. But if you need short or portable, the JDS might be a good choice.

BTW, I also used to own an Oneida; a 1.5hp portable. A filter was defective, as was the replacement they sent me. The third one was fine.

[Michael Stockdale]

Got 12' ceilings in the shop... So, no requirement for a shorter unit.

Michael

Lugoff, SC

[Steve Milito]

Grizzly's customer service more than makes up for the QC. When I bought my DC they were transitioning from the old design to the new design. I drove to the PA store, liked what I saw, and bought a unit. They assured me that they were all the new version. When I opened the crate at home I realized it was the older unit. They offered to replace the unit, including shipping to the version I wanted. They told me stock was available at my store. I decided it would just be simpler to drive back to the store and swap units. I had them open the crates to verify it was the new unit and off I was. No one ever said "hey they are almost identical and there is nothing wrong with the one you got". No hassles. The only reason I made a fuss was that I liked the way the filters were attached on the newer model and figured it would be easier to get an aftermarket filter with the new design. Really good company from a customer service standpoint.

[Michael W. Clark]

The 12 foot ceilings are a major asset for you. Keep plenty of room below the cone and your drum. You may want to install a level switch in the drum because if you fill it up, you will get carryover to the filters.

With the flows we are talking in the 3-5HP range, dense air (not hot), and large particle sizes of most home wwing operations (with the exception of sanders like Dave mentioned), the Oneida, CV, and Grizzly will be very efficient. The key is the motor, emptying the drum before it gets too full, and the filter area.

If I were buying new, it would be hard not to go with the Grizzly. You can add a bin level switch pretty easily if one is not available as an option. The motor can be replaced later if it goes out, (Leeson and Baldor go bad too). Filters are not a life-time purchase, they are a consumable as well and can be changed/upgraded when the stock one blinds. Vent outside if/when you can.

Mike