Washita stones???

[Joshua Stevens]

So as everyone has known forever, and im just learning, when it comes to Arkansas novaculite stones theres a lot of BS about what is what. Ive found depending on who you ask, or whose uncle worked in what industry 100 years ago, arks are either soft, hard, "true" hard, black hard, black translucent, or translucent translucent...and also depending on whose dead uncle you are getting your info from, some of these stones are rare, not mined anymore, have too many defects, were planted by aliens, and have grit ranging from 200 up to 2,000,000....all that being said, god I LOVE arks...and that isnt just because if I have to flatten another waterstone 3 times during the course of a sharpening session again I will #$%(***& everywhere!!!!

SO I was wandering if anyone has experience with washita stones, especially new ones. Ive read they are rather course, leave a good edge and really hog off material. Anyone with experience, are they worth the trouble of finding? Better than a SOFT ark? Basically, what gives, I guess thats the real question, I mean, there arent THAT MANY companies mining novaculite, but out of those, some say "oh no one has had washita for 50 years", some say "oh, well...I have one small one, with a soft spot and hole, and cracked, but I may be able to let you have it for 100 bucks....maybe..." and finally, one nice great guy said, "sure, Ive got loads" lol Want to trust, scared to trust, and darn sure I wont go for the tiny vintage "Lilly Whites" on Ebay for stupid prices...

[David Weaver]

I have a few of them (10), including a couple of non-washita washita stones that are called washita. By that, I mean that the washita stones that come out of the pike mine and that were branded pike, behr manning or norton lilywhite or no 1 are true washita stones. Other stones are usually just soft stones or very low density stones that are soft stones (dans sells a stone they call a washita that isn't like a pike washita, but it's different than the soft arks they offer and most other folks offer).

The two I have that are called washita are the dans and a smiths soft that's described as washita and multicolor. Washita stones don't come like that. They either look coral-ish and white, or they are off white with some mottling that looks like smooth spots.

Washita stones with certainty by look:


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Stones that are not washita

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There's nothing magic about them particularly, except that they work well as a single stone by themselves. They cut fast if they have been refreshed, but in my opinion, they are nicer to use if they aren't refreshed and are allowed to cut fine.

Like all other arkansas stones, they prefer plain and simple steels hardened 60 or less, but they will sharpen stuff like japanese white steel chisels if you don't have to remove too much.

Figure to get a stone that doesn't have a pike lilywhite label, 8x2 inches, or 7x2, $50 is a good target. To get one with a pike lilywhite label, antyhing around $100 is good. Stones with pike/norton labels are in a narrower range of coarseness than unmarked stones (which can go from coarse to a level of fineness like a hard black arkansas for some of the stones that have translucensce - and some of the washitas do - they transmit light. If it doesn't have a pike/norton/behr manning label, consider it to be generic and pay accordingly. It doesn't matter if someone tells you that it's a pike washita if they put pictures of pike boxes along with it or say they're sure it is but it doesn't have a label, it doesn't have pike value without the label to prove it.

In terms of capability, they do what you learn to make them do. If you want them to cut fast, you can learn to make them cut fast and coarse. If you want them to cut fine, you can learn to make them cut fine. Unlike most of the modern synthetics, they cover a broad range, but you have to learn to get it out of them.


Norton owns the mine where the true pike washitas come from, which is why nobody is cutting it right now. There's no shortage of stone at that mine (they're not rare), they just think it's not worth their time (their money is in customers who want industrial abrasives).

They are definitely better than a soft ark stone, and in the days that both were sold, the soft arks were sold as a low-cost alternative to the pike washitas.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Passed through Fayetteville early today and there was a Washita appearing stone at the antique mall - left it for the next guy! Got what I believe to be a Washita earlier this week from Patrick Leach. Bought as much for the carved case as for the stone and haven't tried the stone (yet). I got to be close to 10 washita's, with several unused in original boxes.

Washita is the one stone ticket for me, combined with hollow grinding and a strop, though I use a hard Arkansas for a few licks before the strop.

[David Weaver]

Tony, you should be ashamed What did they want for the stone in fayetteville? I don't have any unused, but a couple that were very lightly used, and had two that were definitely used for razors the way they'd been carefully set up to be loaded with very smooth slick surfaces without a mark nick on them in the loaded swarf.

[Joshua Stevens]

David,

If I understand you correctly, it sounds as though the only Washita stones now or ever to exist came from the Norton mine? So any company claiming to have washita from their mine is selling an inferior soft stone?

[David Weaver]

Yeah, I call that the pike mine because I think it was the pike company. It was probably mined before then.

Anyone selling new stone now is not selling the same thing. In my opinion, those stones are inferior when compared to pike mine washita, because while they can cut coarse and fast if kept lapped fresh, they cannot cut finely like the pike washitas can.

It is no problem on a broken in washita to cut a shaving with a smoother that is well below a thousandth of an inch.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Price was (iirc) maybe $4 or $5. Bare stone, no box, and dealer was in the store on right when heading east on Rt. 30. Stone had almost an "orangish" color that India stones have, but also the mottling of a natural.

Wife was with me, and watching like a hawk so I wasn't in a buying mood. Washita's are pretty common, if you know what to look for (meant for others David). I have one major stone regret and that was about ten years ago, at Renningers in Adamstown. A dealer had a table set up with nothing but a variety of stones, with many in boxes. Prices were high, but what a variety! I didn't get any, because at that time I was still putzing with sandpaper or water stones.

[David Weaver]

If you can find them local, they're usually pretty cheap because they were common and nobody knows what they are. I don't often go looking local, but after I took an interest in the pike washitas, went to my own father's gun cabinet to help him sharpen some knives and found a stone in the bottom that he called "worthless, because it's too slow to sharpen anything". It was a loaded up 2x8 very vintage washita. We cleaned it off and sharpened and stropped a lot of his old knives, one of which was a camillus trooper's knife (that he uses as a hunting knife) and it's clear that the old knives love those stones just like the old tools.

If I'd have just agreed it was terrible, I'm sure he would've given it to me. My dad likes to give his stuff away until you show him how good something is and then he suddenly wants to keep it

For nonbranded washitas, including a woodworker's delight and mechanic's friend (which are most definitely pike-type washitas, but should be priced lower simply because they don't say "pike" or "lilywhite" on them), my average is probably somewhere around $45. I did pay $90 for a lilywhite, and paid $60 once for a stone that I thought was washita that turned out to be some kind of coarse sandstone. I guess I have three norton/pike branded washitas, either in combo (one is india washita) or just a single stone, and they are all similar. I sold Chris a no 1 washita a while ago that was very similar, too. in my opinion, norton/pike tried to keep the stones they marketed more on the coarse side for fast cutting (but they still shave hair), and I think they're on the mark that the coarser of the washitas are more useful for woodworking because they have a little more latitude.