Coffin Smoother Question

[Joe A Faulkner]

For Father's day, I scored this old coffin plane, plus a type 11 #3 Stanley. I don't have any experience using woodies. Sharpened the blade, and played around with it some. So far I've only used it on a piece of scrap poplar. I can get relatively thin shavings, but nothing quite as fine as what I can get with a #4. Note the mouth on this plane is fairly open - nearly 1/4". Is this fairly common on these older coffin planes? I have the chip breaker very close to the edge of the plane iron.


coffinPlane.jpg

[Steve Voigt]

Yes, it's very common for the mouths to be really big, especially if the plane has been used up a lot.
If you can't get fine shavings, I would check the sole for flatness. If you haven't flattened the sole (and it looks like you haven't), it's likely to be out by quite a bit.
The mouth can be patched if you want; it's a pretty straightforward repair.

[ken hatch]

Looking at photos can deceive but it appears the sole of the plane is worn at the toe and the heel (high spots) and is hollow at the mouth. If that is the case, the sole needs to be flattened to bring the toe, heel and mouth coplanar.

[Zach Dillinger]

As others have said... flatten the sole and think really hard about patching the mouth. A wooden plane will work as well as any other plane if properly set up.

[Jim Matthews]

I have been trying the same steps and found two pitfalls not found on cast iron planes that I have repaired. Make sure the iron has no twist. The base of the plane should be set up like a Japanese plane, rather than have a perfectly flat bottom. Dave Weaver and Steve Voigt know of what they speak. This is a fiddly process, listen to the lessons they have already learned.

[Joshua Stevens]

+1 from me for flattening the sole first, sometimes surprising how fine a shaving can be attained with a gaping maw...but really patching may be in order, heres the best online tutorial I have run across:
http://handmadeinwood.wordpress.com/...-coffin-plane/

[Dave Anderson NH]

From my experience, when the mouth of an old wooden plane is that wide open it means that the sole has been heavily eroded by both use and periodic reflattenings. You can patch the mouth, but I consider that a fiddly and aggravating process. I would first flatten the sole and make it truly perpendicular to the sidewalls. In other words, square the plane up. Then I would place the sole on a piece of paper or cardboard and trace the outline with a pencil or pen. I would cut out the resulting template with scissors staying to the outside of the pencil lines making the template overall about a 1/16" oversize in every direction. I would measure with a try square or combo square from the toe of the plane to the front edge of the mouth. Mark that measurement on the template and based on that location measure the planes mouth width and depth toward the heel. As a starting point, halve the depth of the mouth and mark that on the template. Pick a stable quartersawn piece of your choice of wood large enough to duplicate the shape of the sole and approximately 1/4" thick. Saw out the blank and chisel out the mouth opening square or use a coping or fret saw. Do not worry about the ramp angle on the front or rear of the mouth at this point. Glue the new sole in place using hide glue, either hot or cold and let it cure for a day.

You now have a newly soled plane and all that remains is to duplicate the angles at the front and back of the mouth. If the mouth is too tight and the iron won't fit through the mouth sand, scrape, or plane away some of the thickness of the sole until it fits. The basic premise here is that it is easier to make the replacement sole too thick and then plane it away than it is to make it too thin and either have to remake the sole or live with too wide a mouth. Kind of like the board cut too short will still be too short if you cut it again.

Note that you do not have to have plane floats to accomplish this resoling. Slow careful chisel work and/or the judicious use of a fine rasp or file will get you where you need to be. I will also comment that a really tight mouth is not necessarily a prerequisite to getting a nicely planed surface. The sole which ends up oversize all around the perimeter can be trimmed with your method of choice.,

[Jim Matthews]

Where did I see the relamination of the sole and chopping out of the mouth just shy of coming through?

The article showed the basic steps done by hand and the setting of the mouth
on a power jointer. I bet it was a Smalser thread, but I can't find it...

Found it. Chisel down the existing bed and front of the opening, nearly through the new sole.
Power joint until the opening is the desired size.

http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/b...oodPlanes1.asp

image006.jpg

[Joe A Faulkner]

I appreciate all of the advice. Hopefully this weekend I can take some time to flatten the sole and assess whether or not to address the wide mouth. I'm inclined to "re-sole" rather than patch the mouth, though the notion of using a power jointer to re-sole a wooden hand plane is causing a bit of internal dissonance.

I did just order the Finck book "Making and Mastering Wood Planes. I do have a wooden jointer that I got for Christmas that I haven't done anything with. Maybe I should tune it first and use it to fix the smoother?

[Steve Voigt]

You don't need to use a powered jointer. Use a #4 or #5 to clean up the sole; just check it with a straight edge. You can follow with abrading it on sandpaper stuck to a granite plate, tablesaw, whatever.

[Jim Matthews]

I don't own a power jointer.

It seemed like a logical way to do this, without throwing in a Dutchman in front of the mouth.
My supposition is that the smoother that I'm struggling with has worn so much that the blade
cannot bed properly near the cutting edge.

Replace the sole extends the bed, where it's needed most.

It's the chopping along the lines of the established walls that I thought really clever.

[Joe A Faulkner]

I spent about 20 minutes lapping the sole on sandpaper, and cleaned up the throat a bit. There were some rough spots in the throat where the shavings should slide up that were pretty jagged. Almost as if someone had used this to scrape some paint and the some of the chips had fused to the plane.

The sole is still far from flat, but getting it 90% of the way there was all it took to create fine shavings. I like the feel of the plane of course so far I haven't tried it on any hickory or osage orange.

This old plane won't win any beauty contests. I'm not sure how much I can clean it up without resorting to scraping or sanding. I've wiped it down with some mineral spirits. Again, thanks to all for suggestions.

[Jim Matthews]

Nicely done.

While the wedge is intact,
make a replacement using the profile.

When, and if, your wedge breaks - it will be trivial
to get a new one fitted.

If your smoother rehab is like mine, the most difficult
part is getting a properly fit wedge...

My replacement has a "half moon" lateral profile
that is polished smooth in the center.

I still have problems with shavings jammed into the side of the mouth.

Maddening, really.

[Joe A Faulkner]

I know the photos aren't that great, but if you look closely you will see I have some shavings that have jammed between the chip breaker and the blade at the edge of the mouth that is oriented towards the top of the photo. I'm guessing that if I tune up the chip break a bit this will resolve that issue. When testing on pretty short pieces of scrap I was getting a stuffed mouth as well. The shavings weren't long enough to move up the throat and would just curl and jam up near the blade. A tighter mouth likely would address this as well.

[Jim Matthews]

I can't speak to the mechanics of these, there's more variables at play than I can track.

What I've seen of these blades is that the chip breaker, blade and wedge must exert
even force in the same plane, or lateral misalignment will result in the gap you describe.

The first blade I tried with has a pronounced twist over the length,
and the chip breaker can't be properly fitted.

The way I look at it is this; the smallest openings on the side need to "steer"
the shavings toward the opening, or what you describe will happen.

It certainly happens on the plane I'm fiddling with.
I have one rehabbed by Dave Weaver that doesn't suffer the same fate.

I suspect that the wedge does more to keep the iron "bedded"
that might be obvious. If the lowest portion has been worn,
that last few millimeters is unsupported.