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Thread: Serious Ultimate Gouge -my perspective

  1. #1

    Serious Ultimate Gouge -my perspective

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    A few months ago, I briefly mentioned the Serious Ultimate Gouge that I had acquired........actually, I have two sizes the 1/2" and the 5/8".......both will fit into the cam-lock handle with their respective collet.

    At the time I originally mentioned this, I had not had any time with the tool(s) and said I would give a bit of review after I got a few pieces under my belt with them. I currently have several brands of gouges......Sorby's, Crowns, Thompson's and some cheaper Benjamen's Best from PSI, and a woodriver gouge from WC.

    I have now done numerous styles of forms with them........bowls, boxes, vases, pens, birdhouse ornaments.......and some spindlework such as peppermills. I feel at this time, I can give an objective observation about the tool and how it relates in quality and function compared to other tools I have and use............so having been requested to give this review, I now submit my observations!

    First of all.......the ULTIMATE GOUGE from Serious Toolworks is a "serious tool!" This gouge is 12" long and the flute runs the entire length of the gouge.........this adds more life to the tool because you don't run into the shank with it like others, and the tool is made from alloys that are proprietary to Serious Toolworks, and are marketed to hold a fine edge longer than HHS. The combination of my sharpening setup with a 60 grit Norton and CBN 180 grit makes a beautiful edge. A light touch up with the CBN and I am off to the races!

    I can attest to the fact that the edge holding capability is about as good as any tool I have ever used. I have, use, and like very much, my Thompson gouges.........the Ultimate Gouge from Serious is on par I believe, with the Thompson gouges and have the entire length fluted..........that gives not only a longevity bonus, but also allows for a different grind to be put on the other end of the same gouge.......say a bottom feeder grind........which is handy in the Cam-lock handle design, by just a twist of the collar and flipping the end. The ultimate gouge is light years ahead of the cheaper brands, in my opinion!

    The Cam-lock handle has been wonderful for me. In cold weather, my shop/studio has little heat, but the neoprene handle allows me to turn without my hands turning so cold I can hardly grip it! This is a real comfort issue for me, and it also removes much vibration and shock factor, which has to be a plus for any aging turner or one who suffers with carpal tunnel syndrome. Also a plus, is that you can extend or retract the gouge into the handle to suit your particular need at the moment, and it helps when you do not want to take your tailstock off the bed because the handle of your gouge keeps bumping it!

    I have used both the 1/2" [my go to size for most turnings] and the 5/8" for roughing out operations.......it hogs off wood very well, and the edge holding ability and fine grind make it a joy to use.

    Another plus it that my Thompson gouges will fit the collets and the cam-lock handle which was very important to me in deciding to get the cam-lock setup.........I feel like I get the best of both the makers by using this handle system.

    I post this because I was asked to, and said I would back a few months ago........I have no purpose other than to give an honest appraisal of a tool that really has done a good job for me, and even though it is a little more expensive up front, the value is certainly there with the entire length fluted and the ability to put more than one grind on the tool.

    For those who may be in the market for a new bowl gouge............my personal opinion is that you ought to give the ULTIMATE GOUGE a "Serious" look! I have no affiliation with Serious Toolworks, other than being a satisfied customer.......I can say that the folks there at Serious, go out of their way to try to make their customers happy and take good care of them!

    I hope you will find this review helpful and informative!
    Remember, in a moments time, everything can change!

    Vision - not just seeing what is, but seeing what can be!




  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    north, OR
    Posts
    1,160
    Thanks for the great review Roger. I'm needing to upgrade my Benjamen's Best at some point pretty soon, and this gives some nice food for thought (I was looking primarily at the thompson, and its nice to see the serious handle works with both).

  3. #3
    I did get a sample from Scott a few years back of a gouge that he was going to make out of a 'special' type of metal. At that time, the flute design was a deep V, and it cut so far in that there was little metal left in the bottom of the gouge. It was VERY hard, probably harder than any other metal I had used except for tantung. The flute design here looks much better. I may have to try one out. Could you post a better picture of the flute shape? Does he have other flute shapes?

    One concern with the harder metals was/is being very brittle. This means that if you drop it, there is risk of chipping and/or breaking. Also you would never quench it because of the risk of micro fractures. Know any thing about that with this tool?

    Thanks,
    robo hippy

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    hayden, id
    Posts
    515
    is the serious a parabolic fluted gouge or "v" or " u"

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Wetter Washington
    Posts
    888
    Last time I looked at their tools was, well, at the Portland AAW symposium.
    I kidded them about the "serious" money for a "serious" tool/lathe (they had been up to the local club the Wed before for a demo/tool-show-off)
    Making sawdust mostly, sometimes I get something else, but that is more by accident then design.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Chicago Heights, Il.
    Posts
    2,136
    I've been using a 1/2" D-Way for a few months and it has been a sweet gouge. The parabolic flute seems to stay in the cut better than a "V" gouge. Even with a very light cut the surface produced is smooth without rippling. I will buy the 5/8 when our club makes another mass purchase. The colbalt steel last longer and the the price is on par with the powder gouges. All tolled I have about 10 bowl gouges. The all get used for various techniques.
    Member Illiana Woodturners

  7. #7
    I have experimented extensively with the V 10 that Thompson uses, and the M4 that D Way uses. There is no noticeable difference in edge holding ability. I have a friend who can give you a weather forecast for the next week depending on how his myrtle wood cuts, and he agrees. The metal that Serious is using is different.

    robo hippy

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Wetter Washington
    Posts
    888
    Quote Originally Posted by Reed Gray View Post
    I have experimented extensively with the V 10 that Thompson uses, and the M4 that D Way uses. There is no noticeable difference in edge holding ability. I have a friend who can give you a weather forecast for the next week depending on how his myrtle wood cuts, and he agrees. The metal that Serious is using is different.

    robo hippy
    Dave uses M42
    Making sawdust mostly, sometimes I get something else, but that is more by accident then design.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Reed Gray View Post
    I did get a sample from Scott a few years back of a gouge that he was going to make out of a 'special' type of metal. At that time, the flute design was a deep V, and it cut so far in that there was little metal left in the bottom of the gouge. It was VERY hard, probably harder than any other metal I had used except for tantung. The flute design here looks much better. I may have to try one out. Could you post a better picture of the flute shape? Does he have other flute shapes?

    One concern with the harder metals was/is being very brittle. This means that if you drop it, there is risk of chipping and/or breaking. Also you would never quench it because of the risk of micro fractures. Know any thing about that with this tool?

    Thanks,
    robo hippy
    Reed.......Serious went to a little more shallow flute and a newer, but somewhat similar design. In my mind they kept what was really good about the original design and made it better...........there is a little more metal under the flute than on the older design. I have not had any issues with brittleness on the gouges I got a few months ago........believe me, I have had them roll off the bed ways and fall behind my lathe on several occasions....... all my fault of course for laying it there and bumping it when my focus was on another tool and the cut I was making.......I think putting the tools on the bed of the lathe is something we all do at times.........don't know if it is what we ought to be doing!
    Remember, in a moments time, everything can change!

    Vision - not just seeing what is, but seeing what can be!




  10. Quote Originally Posted by allen thunem View Post
    is the serious a parabolic fluted gouge or "v" or " u"
    Okay.......I think I am right about this, but terms sometimes trip me up, so let me describe the thing. The flute looks to me like a modified V with a little wider bottom than just a straight sharp V in the bottom.......that being said..........the wings do get a bit of an arc on the grind I put on them, where my Sorby of the same size gets a very straight line edge..........therefore, I think it is parabolic? Does that make sense?

    I get really nice cuts with the wings using a shear cut with the handle down and boy does it ever throw off the shavings.......ribbons would be a better term, as they really just pile up. Also, the finish off the tool that has a nicely sharpened edge will allow me to start sanding at 240 grit a lot of times..........not true on all woods, but has been the case on several I have done!
    Remember, in a moments time, everything can change!

    Vision - not just seeing what is, but seeing what can be!




  11. #11
    okay.......because I want to be precise, and never misrepresent things [not even by accident!] I emailed Serious and got this response from Scott Trumbo who read my answer above..............

    "I read your answer on the forum and your comments are spot on (modified V) except there is no parabola in any of our tools. With a parabolic flute shape (think oval) the flute corners pull back in a little towards the flute center. I believe only D-Way and Henry Taylor work with this shape in their gouges."

    Hope this clarifies the question on the flute!
    Remember, in a moments time, everything can change!

    Vision - not just seeing what is, but seeing what can be!




  12. #12
    I cringe every time I see 'ultimate' anything and it is usually a deal breaker for me.......... Hope it's good for you......
    *** "I have gained insights from many sources... experts, tradesman & novices.... no one has a monopoly on good ideas." Jim Dailey, SMC, Feb. 19, 2007
    *** "The best way to get better is to leave your ego in the parking lot."----Eddie Wood, 1994
    *** We discovered that he had been educated beyond his intelligence........
    *** Student of Rigonomics & Gizmology

    Waste Knot Woods
    Rice, VA

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Chandler View Post
    okay.......because I want to be precise, and never misrepresent things [not even by accident!] I emailed Serious and got this response from Scott Trumbo who read my answer above..............

    "I read your answer on the forum and your comments are spot on (modified V) except there is no parabola in any of our tools. With a parabolic flute shape (think oval) the flute corners pull back in a little towards the flute center. I believe only D-Way and Henry Taylor work with this shape in their gouges."

    Hope this clarifies the question on the flute!
    Perhaps a better description of a parabolic shape would be that the sides continue an upward and outward curve, but with an ever increasing radius. Thus, while the inside wall appears to be somewhat concave, the flute corners don't actually "pull back in...toward the flute center." That would seem to leave the impression that the flute closes back in toward the top.

    I would think an "oval" would more closely, but not exactly, describe a "U" gouge flute as we commonly see them.

    Edit - I should add that, IMO, the curvature of the side walls of a gouge more effect the dynamics of waste ejection, while the nose profile more effects the dynamics of the cutting action. Obviously, with a shearing cut, that may not be totally accurate. Thus, one's personal style of tool use can make one flute shape more desirable than another. It is likely we will not all agree on the "best" profile, but we are certainly blessed to have multiple choices!!
    Last edited by John Keeton; 06-21-2014 at 7:22 AM.

  14. #14
    I would agree with John that the curvature of the side walls affect waste ejection -- I simply cannot use bowl gouges that have a noticeably 'V' shape, even in shear cutting. The profile created by different styles of grinding also ought to have a serious effect on waste ejection vs clogging. Perhaps with a different grind I'd be happier with sharper V profiles. On the other hand, I'm happy with my results with the more open ('U' or parabolic) cross-sections.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by John Keeton View Post
    Perhaps a better description of a parabolic shape would be that the sides continue an upward and outward curve, but with an ever increasing radius. Thus, while the inside wall appears to be somewhat concave, the flute corners don't actually "pull back in...toward the flute center." That would seem to leave the impression that the flute closes back in toward the top.

    I would think an "oval" would more closely, but not exactly, describe a "U" gouge flute as we commonly see them.

    Edit - I should add that, IMO, the curvature of the side walls of a gouge more effect the dynamics of waste ejection, while the nose profile more effects the dynamics of the cutting action. Obviously, with a shearing cut, that may not be totally accurate. Thus, one's personal style of tool use can make one flute shape more desirable than another. It is likely we will not all agree on the "best" profile, but we are certainly blessed to have multiple choices!!

    Thanks John for the further clarification on the oval/parabolic flute issue...........I understand it better myself now!
    Remember, in a moments time, everything can change!

    Vision - not just seeing what is, but seeing what can be!




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