What constitutes the "BEST" gouge?

[Bill Wyko]

I would also like to point out something I just recently discovered, i find that when sharpening on a flat surfaced sharpener, my gouge seems to keep its sharp edge much longer. It also seems to feel better, I don't know if its my imagination or not but as long as it seems that way, it is that way. Over the past few years I've almost exclusively used Glaser but I have used Sorby, Thompson, Crown and a few others. After going to the AAW symposium, I can say, everyone seems to be upping their game. So many beautiful turning tools and articulating hollowing systems that are light years from what was available just a few years ago. What I would like to do some day is have what is considered the top 5 or so gouges right in front of me and give them all a try one after the other. What would be really cool, would be to cover the handles & not know the tool brand in my hand. Some handles of course would be a dead give away like the Glaser & the Thompson so that would be almost impossible, but fun none the less.

[Roger Chandler]

I would also like to point out something I just recently discovered, i find that when sharpening on a flat surfaced sharpener, my gouge seems to keep its sharp edge much longer. It also seems to feel better, I don't know if its my imagination or not but as long as it seems that way, it is that way. Over the past few years I've almost exclusively used Glaser but I have used Sorby, Thompson, Crown and a few others. After going to the AAW symposium, I can say, everyone seems to be upping their game. So many beautiful turning tools and articulating hollowing systems that are light years from what was available just a few years ago. What I would like to do some day is have what is considered the top 5 or so gouges right in front of me and give them all a try one after the other. What would be really cool, would be to cover the handles & not know the tool brand in my hand. Some handles of course would be a dead give away like the Glaser & the Thompson so that would be almost impossible, but fun none the less.

Bill.........when I did the review on the Serious Toolworks ULTIMATE gouge, I did a piece right before that with the Thompson, Crown cryogenic, Serious Ultimate and Sorby all right in front of me, while using them all on the same piece of wood, and taking very similar cuts.......just to compare apples to apples, so to speak.

I found the Serious Ultimate gouge and the Thompson to cut the best and of course have the best longevity on an edge. To me, with my CBN wheel, I got the most refined edge with the Serious Ultimate gouge, with the Thompson a close second, but the metal in the Serious gouge got a smoother bevel finish.

My crown cryogenic gouge did very well, but was slightly behind the Ultimate and Thompson in edge holding longevity......the Sorby HHS was not even in the running for edge longevity or smooth bevel compared to the Ultimate from Serious Toolworks or the Thompson. All these I tested on the same piece of wood [maple] were V flutes.

I think the Serious Toolworks Ultimate gouge and the Thompson's are on a par with one another in edge longevity and cutting results.........at least that was my experience.

On handles.........I have Thompson handles with my name engraved by Doug.......sweet! The Cam-lock from Serious is the best I have ever had in my hands...............it has become my "go to" setup most of the time for my gouges......I should say, that I can use my Thompson gouges in the Serious cam-lock handle as well as my Serious gouges, and do so when I want to use more than one gouge without having to stop and sharpen.

[Reed Gray]

Roger,
Have you ever tried one of the D Way M42 (or whatever that steel is that he uses?

robo hippy

[Roger Chandler]

Roger,
Have you ever tried one of the D Way M42 (or whatever that steel is that he uses?

robo hippy

No, Reed.........I have not had the opportunity as of yet. The gouges I have all have come as a bit of a learning curve and acquisitions made in a quest for really good tool. I have only been turning seriously for about 5 years now, and a lot of that time has been a learning process. I am at a point now that I understand the mechanics and differences in a lot of what is on the market. I hope to try one of Dave's gouges in the future, just to see how it would do for me...........every one speaks highly of it that I have heard.

Please know that my comment above in reply to Bill Wyko's post was about the "comparison experiment" I did with the gouges I have on hand.......and the results I got. That is not to state any tool I have is superior to another makers tools...........just the observations of one turner with the tools he has experience with.........of course like they say, "your mileage may vary!" That being said.........I do think my results are in the ballpark of what most turners can expect with the gouges I have referenced!

[Jeff Gilfor]

Systematically, when comparing tools of the same type, you need to split the comparison along several variables: Shape, Steel type, and edge-holding. Many would argue that edge-holding and steel type are the same, but it have found that, due to tempering methods, two tools of the same metal may be different in edge holding capabilities.

this makes comparisons, even in the most rigorous of testing, rather subjective. Of course though, that is why there are so many choices out there. This is much more an art than science.

I just purchased a 1/2 bowl gouge from Dave at D-way. Just checking out all the alternatives.

i had been pending all my tool money with Doug Thompson, and was extremely satisfied (still am), but wanted to check out the competition and see if I could notice any difference. I tried the D-Way and the new Hurricane 10V gouge.

As far as steel itself, other than color (Doug's are that matte black oxidized finish), I believe they are all 10% vanadium! hardened to at least Rockwell mid 60's.

All the flutes seem relatively similar. I compared the U-shaped from each, and the all appear to be parabolic. The flute depths vary slightly, with the Hurricane being the deepest.

for push cuts, I can't really tell the difference. For pull or shearing cuts with my long swept back wings (modified Irish grind at 50 degrees with nose angle at about 60 degrees), I feel that the Hurricane is better than the Thompson, which is slightly better than the D-way. Not enough difference to steer me one way or the other.

As far as edge holding, the Thompson still beats the pack. The D-way is only slightly shorter, and the Hurricane seems the same as that.

BTW, I have been using the Sorby Proedge system to sharpen them to 220 grit for the comparison.

As always, your milage may vary.

[Prashun Patel]

I have not reached the level of proficiency as most of the posters on this thread. But I will say that the only thing that matters to me at this stage is a tool that holds its edge. I own a V and a U bowl gouge and I cannot for the life of me tell the difference between their performance. My Thompsons hold a better edge than my Benjamin's Bests. However, I do not believe that getting a better tool from here will make me a better turner. I think there's a broad distinction to be drawn between 'good' and 'bad' gouges, but the distinction between 'good' and 'best' seems moot.

[Jamie Donaldson]

Roger, your comments about a "smoother" bevel between different gouges are not valid if they were both sharpened on the same CBM wheel. The surface of the wheel produces the same surface "texture" and patterns on a tool bevel regardless of alloy or hardness. Of course the bevel smoothness has only a small effect on the longevity of the cutting edge, and that can lead to a variety of opinions when objective testing procedures are not applied. I do like the smoother finish from my 180 CBN wheel when compared to the old Norton SG 120's I used for years!

[John Keeton]

This is starting to sound like the "sharpening wars" that occur on the Neander Forum!!! I wouldn't suggest posting generalized comments about how each steel sharpens there. The answers might be very enlightening!

On a serious note, Roger could have been referring to the level of flute smoothness, though I don't know that to be true. If so, that certainly affects the sharpness of the edge.

[Roger Chandler]

Roger, your comments about a "smoother" bevel between different gouges are not valid if they were both sharpened on the same CBM wheel. The surface of the wheel produces the same surface "texture" and patterns on a tool bevel regardless of alloy or hardness. Of course the bevel smoothness has only a small effect on the longevity of the cutting edge, and that can lead to a variety of opinions when objective testing procedures are not applied. I do like the smoother finish from my 180 CBN wheel when compared to the old Norton SG 120's I used for years!

Not trying to sharpen the edge on any "sharpening wars" as John mentioned above, but an honest question for Jamie.........

You say that "smoother bevel between different gouges not valid if both sharpened on same CBN wheel.........well they were in my comparrison [not scientific for sure, but what I saw and believe to be true] my question is this.......Would not a different metal compound abrade differently on the same wheel ........I do know for sure, but the bevel area of the wings and nose of the Serious Ultimate gouge was indeed smoother than my Thompson, enough to notice the smoother texture! Very noticeable compared to my Sorby HHS for example

In no way am I trying to be argumentative, but I think it could be a different way the metal abrades off that might explain the difference I noticed. I will caveat this by saying I have no way other than my eyes and brain that tell me this is the case, but no objective way to measure in a scientifically standardized manner.

No wars intended John! Concepts around turning and sharpening are always good fodder for learning, don't you think! I was referring to the bevel on the wings and nose........not the flute, just to be clear!

[Reed Gray]

I will admit that I found the concept of two different metals coming off the same grinding wheel with two different finishes/surfaces, a bit strange. It could be possible I suppose. My guess is that if there is a noticeable difference, it would depend on the size of the metal particles, and if the grinding wheel as it sharpens is taking off individual particles, or scraping/cutting the particles down in pieces. There have been discussions about which type of steel or metal can take the finest edge, and it seems like the answer to that one is more in the realm of you can get the same fineness of edge, but it is easier on some than on others. I am going to have to ponder this one, unless some one can explain it to me. The only real thing I know about most metals is how to grind and sharpen it.....

robo hippy

[Jon Prouty]

I will admit that I found the concept of two different metals coming off the same grinding wheel with two different finishes/surfaces, a bit strange. It could be possible I suppose. My guess is that if there is a noticeable difference, it would depend on the size of the metal particles, and if the grinding wheel as it sharpens is taking off individual particles, or scraping/cutting the particles down in pieces. There have been discussions about which type of steel or metal can take the finest edge, and it seems like the answer to that one is more in the realm of you can get the same fineness of edge, but it is easier on some than on others. I am going to have to ponder this one, unless some one can explain it to me. The only real thing I know about most metals is how to grind and sharpen it.....

robo hippy

Food for thought - do different woods sanded with the same paper exhibit different scratch patterns or roughness? Just a thought.

JP

[Reed Gray]

Jon,
That is like which steel can take the best edge. If you do your sanding right, they will have pretty much the same surface look. Difference is in the density of the wood as some will glow more than others when sanded to the same final grit. Some take more sanding to get there as well, but it seems that most of the time spend is in the coarser grits. I have been sanding a lot of bowls lately, and since it is brainless work, I am pondering a lot of things, like how much water evaporates off the California Aquaduct every day, thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions of gallons????? Drove past that on the way to Phoenix.

robo hippy