What constitutes the "BEST" gouge?

[Bob Bergstrom]

I don't use any jigs to sharpen so my grinding can vary considerably? I have experimented with very narrow nose and 2" swept back wings to 70 or 80 degree nose bevels. I have 3/4 and 7/8" "V" gouges with long swept back wings. They are for roughing out bowls quickly. Both can hog off very large curls. I have a 1" "U" that I tried with swept back wings. Not near as effective. Ground the wings vertical and use it on the bottom of deep bowls. Very stout and works far over the tool rest. Most of my gouges are now either powder or cobalt metal sharpen on CBN wheels. I probably sharpen more often than ever. I can not work with dull edges anymore. Facets on the bevel are not a problem as long as the are far enough from the bevel. Finding a proper cutting angle for the particular type of gouge may be more important than the profile of the gouge. Whether it's a water pipe or D-Way, when presented properly they both can produce curls

[Harry Robinette]

Myself I like a V shape gouge for hogging out and a U for my smoothing work.My main gouges are my 1/2" and 5/8" Thompsons.I also use a Sorby 1/2" TiN that I use for very fine cuts. I find all of the steels work well if there sharpened right for your style, I use mostly 10v tools but also have some HSS high Rockwell 63 to 65. Sharpening is the key, try different grinds and find one that fells comfortable. Everyone is a different height,has a different stands,their machine is set-up different so everyone needs to find a grind that fit's them and fells comfortable.
Tools are personnel believe it or not.The length of them,the weight,and the fell of them in your hand all make a difference. So check out some different tools ask others what they use,and like and try one of their gouges.
Hope this helps.

[Michelle Rich]

Best? I'm just happy with one that works..a sharpened pipe? a benjamin's best? don't care, as long as they work. If I can achieve my goal, it's good enough.

[Bill Blasic]

First off I start by saying that I use to help Doug sell his tools, not because I was paid well but because I really liked his tools. A few points from my experience. I sharpened my tools with AO (and occasionally still do) for years. I recently acquired a couple of CBN wheels and the main difference I have found between both types of sharpening is that with the CBN it is faster and I take off less steel. The CBN is more repeatable than AO because it does not wear like AO. I feel I achieved comparable sharpness with AO or CBN on 10V or 15V. 15V is more expensive and harder than 10V but that also means that it is a lot chippier (the sharp edge will fracture a lot easier). I think 10V is a better all around choice. I have a Serious Ultimate 5/8 bowl gouge and I find it to be no better than what I use which does not make it bad but means there are less expensive tools that are as good or better than this secret steel in my opinion. I have never used a D-Way tool but John Keeton says they are a good tool and I respect his judgement. V vs U - I feel the V gives me much more control as the U is more aggressive and wants to self feed into the cut. Also you can put big wings on the V but if you do that on a U you end up with a tool that does not cut. The Thompson V is a little wider at the bottom because Doug used the Glaser tools and the Glaser V had a tendency to clog and his do not. The Jimmy Clewes tools are not any narrower than the regular V they have a deeper flute which Jimmy says gives them a more parabolic shape. This is the same reasoning for the new Jamieson tool that he says is neither a V or a U. I'm sure that there are lots of good tools out there that I've not used and I won't because I'm happy with what I have. No matter what tool you use learning to sharpen with a repeatable grind that you like is most important.
Bill

[Darrell Duvall]

Del Stubbs used a water pipe.

I am a new turner and I think I use a gouge like a water pipe. I bought some used tools and used lathe and I have some bowl gouges of different lengths and different diameters. Are they for different purposes? They don't have the same shape on the end.

[Roger Chandler]

I have been away from the computer this morning, out and about taking care of administrative work.............when I got back and turned on the computer, I had an email from Scott Trumbo from Serious Toolworks.........he asked that I post this to clarify remarks on the other thread about parabolic gouge shapes and their ultimate gouge........here is the email verbatim.........

Good Morning Roger,
I need to offer a correction and apology for the error in my previous explanation. On John Keeton's new thread you may want to post some or all of the comment below.

I read John's response to my comment. First of all, I really like his leadership in the perspective of "Do not simply tell other readers which brand of product you like, explain the reasons you like this brand." Well done John. Then I thought, "I have never researched a parabola, my image has been developed by what i think others are describing. This is not great communication process and I need to understand what is being said." I googled "parabola" and some math from decades ago returned to my mind. My summary on bowl gouge flutes would state this, nearly all bowl gouges except the Thompson U are somewhere between a narrow V and a parabolic shape. The differences are in the flute trough depth and width..... Finally, I agree with John Keeton in that the flute shape affects shaving discharge more than anything else. The nose profile is affected by the depth of the flute and the angle of the nose grind. I am a long term bowl turner, and I grind my Ultimate gouge noses now at 60 degrees. I apologize for all confusion my previous comment caused and truly hope these comments have added some clarity and useful info on bowl gouge design and performance.

Thanks,

Scott w

[Brian Kent]

Still new enough to this to have very little to offer to this discussion, but there is one thing I think I am noticing.

I think the HSS that is in Benjamin's Best is springier than my powdered steel. I am so early in this hobby that I might just be talking about an imaginary difference. But so far I like the powdered steel better because it seems to vibrate a little less.

[David DeCristoforo]

"Care to contribute?"

Too late.. I already shot myself...

[Robert Henrickson]

I prefer more open flute profiles. I get in trouble with narrower flutes (so-called ‘V’ vs ‘U’) choking – I have recently even had trouble with a bowl gouge when I was turning dry curly white oak yesterday and making shear cuts. I certainly wasn't taking aggressive cuts since the curl loved to chip out (the vendor made a pass through a planer ). I managed to avoid that chipping, with gentle cuts. I actually had less trouble with the flute choking on that same piece of curly white oak when I was making more aggressive cuts, doing some hollowing.

Even for bowls 12-14" in diameter I find that a ½" (3/8" flute) gouge can remove plenty of wood. I own a 5/8" (½" flute) bowl gouge which I used to use much more than I have recently. I have found that the greater size does not make a great deal of difference in how readily I can remove a given volume of wood.

If only the flute names / descriptions were consistent from brand to brand. Since they are not, what I would like to see in sales listings for bowl gouges is a END-ON VIEW of the flute so that I could SEE what the shape of the flute actually is. As it is, ‘V’ or ‘U’ or ‘parabolic’ or what have you mean different things to different people, and the same term gets applied to differing profiles – the terms are essentially meaningless except in the most general sense.

And variations in style of grind will vary the performance of a given flute profile.

I am far less worried about the specs of the metal than I am with the flute profile. It takes no more than 15 seconds total for me to resharpen (stopping cutting to resuming cutting at the lathe), but if the shavings won’t clear, it doesn’t matter how sharp it is or how well the edge resists dulling. I can't tell you what specific metal type any of my gouges or other tools are -- just that they do the job.

Ultimately, the ‘best’ is what performs best for you. The three bowl gouges I use almost exclusively are -- one of each -- a Thompson, a Packard, and a Oneway. Three brands, two sizes, three flute profiles (but none 'V').

[John Keeton]

There is an older thread that discusses profiles - http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...Flute-Profiles Unfortunately, some of the images are no longer available. However, the OP did some "castings" of a OneWay gouge that provided a nice comparison.


Might be interesting if others would do the same or, if possible, post a head on pic of the profile of various gouge brands/types.

In another post some years back, there was a pic posted showing the flute profile of Thompson's V and U gouges. The gouges were ground back by Doug to show that the tip should mimic the profile of the flute when sharpening the tool.

[Robert Henrickson]

Those are the sorts of illustrations that are really informative. I can tell from the Thompson comparison photo that the 'U' would have to be my choice. That is close to the Packard gouge which has long been my favorite.

[Jack Mincey]

I have turned with benjamins best, Packard brand, Ellsworth, Thompson, P&N, and Hamilton. I own bowl gouges made by the last 4 company's. While they are all great I seem to always turn with a HSS 5/8" Ellsworth gouge. I have it in both the powder metal, and HSS and just seem to prefer the HSS. It gets sharper in my humble opinion and I don't mind sharping more often if it cuts better and easier. I like the V flute of the Ellsworth better than any I've tried. I actually gave away one of my P&N bowl gouges because the v was so step that it would stop up with wood easily. Now for spindle work other than detail I do most of my turning with a 5/8" forged spindle gouge. I have three and use one made of HSS and one made of carbon steel most of the time. They both hold and edge and cut great. I think that the rush to make tools that need sharpening less frequent has hurt the world of turning some. Good old carbon steel tools can work great and would be cheaper than any of the steels used today. As far as detail spindle work I can grind about any 3/8" spindle gouge to work for me.
Jack

[Jamie Donaldson]

I learned to turn with the Sorby M2 bowl gouges when I started 28 yrs. ago, and that is still the open flute profile that I favor for most applications. I have found little working difference in the M4 Oneway and M42 D-Way alloys, and for me they are very similar in edge holding characteristics to the V10(A 11) in the Thompson gouges. There is a world of hype and false virtue claims associated with the selling of tools, and the best tool is the sharp one that best does the job intended. Many turners should standardize with a specific tool that accomplishes the job to best advantage, and spend less time jumping from tool to tool in mid process. Its most often the tool holding the tool that "gets 'er done!"

[robert baccus]

I'm an old -art and have accumulated some 70 odd turning tools. My favorites are easily the old Glasers and the Thompson's for sharp and long wearing edges. It seems to me a function of V gouges has not been stressed here. I have sharpened some down to 65 deg on the tip which makes a decent bottom feeder and a long side blade. Nose cutting to me is superior in U shaped tools and are my favorite everyday. Years ago I obtained a 100#+ piece of pheasant wood which promply turned the edges of every high dollar tool I had--merely shined a ring. Started going through very old cheap unlabeled tools of any shape and behold. An old rusty 7/8" shallow spindle gouge just ate it up like an apple.!!!I tried several odd grinds on the good tools but only the 7/8 piece of -rap finished out the whole bowl. I also stone grind but follow with a fine diamond power hone--sharp yeah.

[Curt Fuller]

That gouge (or any other tool) that has a comfortable handle and feels good in your hands, has good balance, is sharp and is sharpened with the grind that your muscle memory recognizes as it moves across the wood, and fits the purpose for what it's being used. Most of us would struggle using another turners tools and most other turners would struggle using ours, even if they were the exact same gouge. Every gouge I've purchased has come with the factory grind which I have immediately reshaped to my liking. Then it becomes my gouge and I begin to like it.