Whirlwind Upcut Saws

[Chris Stormer]

I'm looking at purchasing an upcut saw. It seems that Whirlwind is popular and there are older machines on the market for decent prices. Have the features changed much on upcut saws over the years? Will I be missing out on any killer features picking up a machine that is 10-20 years old? Also it seems that there are many more more left sided machines that right sided machines (meaning the material feeds from the right to the left instead of what I would guess to be more natural left to right). I'm really curious as to why this is.

[Max Neu]

What do you plan on using the saw for? WHirlwinds are good for rough cutting lumber, like at sawmills or lumber yards.If you want something that gives quality cuts, look at Omga.I have been been more than happy with mine.

[johnny means]

Chris, your going to find a very limited number of people with experience or knowledge of that level of machine on this forum. The average Joe on here considers a Unisaw to be a hefty piece of equipment. Of course, you'll get some opinions here but there are, IMO, much better forums for such topics.

Anyway, IME, straight line saws are better suited to those who need lumber cut with any precision. If all you need to do its pump our 5000 ft of squirrely 1x2s, gang ripping is the way to go. Can't say I've worked with enough brands to know the differences.

[johnny means]

Oops wrong thread. Gotta be careful with multiple tabs.

[Peter Quinn]

The newer saws have better safety features than the older ones, bit of a pain to learn at first because they force you to have two hands on triggers, thus no fingers under blades. As far as features....pretty much the same. Set them up with an accurate stop system, they will cut as accurate as anything. Dead square and clean as long as you replace the backer in the hold down. Pneumatic saws that cut from above leave a bit better surface without need for frequent block changes but the capacity at a given price point is lower and iir cycle time is longer, so if heavy production is required consider cycle time. Something like an Omga is great for lines that do angled cuts, many up cuts are square only. Omga is on the light end of the scale for industrial chop boxes, they make them much heavier than that. Short of changing bearings and maybe a new piston not much to go wrong with a whirldwind. Most I've seen are set up at the end of a molding line, so wood comes in from the right and goes left which is natural when defecting directly off of the molder.

[Chris Stormer]

@Johnny, you really lost me for a second - Maybe there are better forums but I'm here everyday.

@Peter - Thank you that really explained why I see so many left handed ones.

[johnny means]

Yeah, sometimes I lose myself (obviously). Don't get me wrong, I think any related discussion is great here. I'm sure plenty of Creekers learn a lot from the "pro" threads here and as a professional I enjoy the unjaded viewpoint expressed in this type of forum.

Anyway, features on modern jumpsaws are quite extraordinary. Years ago, one of the shops I worked in bought one that would self feed and optimize. You would plug in a cut list and set certain parameters. This thing would then spit out parts cut to exact length and graded to whatever standard was required. All they needed was an 8 dollar an hour monkey to load and unload. Not that I think you would require that level of machine, but there are a lot of cool options you might like. A CNC fence is the main thing that comes to mind. Also, whatever safety improvements are available.

Might I ask what your doing that calls for all this processing power?

[Peter Quinn]

Coolest thing I've seen was an uncut/end matcher with an optic reader. A guy with a crayon feeds the machine, marks the cutouts, machine does the rest, basically the size of a molder. It reads the crayon marks, defects as ordered, drops dump into a grinder, finished goods spit out to a packing line. Thats a whole different thing than a manual whirlwind with a tiger stop or similar.

[Peter Quinn]

Found it......not an up cut but same basic job plus end matching.

http://www.endmatcher.com/en/video.html

[Alan Bienlein]

I've used one for the past 4 years coupled with a tiger stop. You can't beat it for precision and repeatability! As far as I know you won't be missing anything by getting an older one.

[mickey cassiba]

Hi Chris,
I've had some experience with Whirlwind saws.
Left handers are more available because more of them were built. Not really sure, but that's what it is.
Whirlwind is out of business, they were bought out a while back. If you're interested I'll share what I know about them. Shoot me a PM, I have some contacts with the new owners. Basic parts are available, but stock is dwindling. The new owners are supporting the older models, but only until stock runs out. No plans to reproduce the older ones. The new ones have some interesting safety features but are basically the same machine.
I'm currently refurbishing a 1000S, lefty. I've got some documentation for 14's. 16's and 18's, both left and right. What model are you looking at?

[Kent A Bathurst]

Lots of experience. Bought maybe 50 - 75 used over the last 20 years.

Sorry - this got long in a hurry. I forgot how much I have dealt with these saws. If you want more - ask and I will try to answer.

Comments/observations [may be repeating prior posts]

1. Not much can go wrong with the basic up-cut design, regardless of mfg. As long as you keep it cleaned out and lubed/greased, belts checked, air cylinder maintained/rebuilt. Intended for fast, accurate, cutting.

2. Correct comments above on a solid infeed/outfeed table system. Get it aligned, get it leveled. Anchor everything to the concrete floor.

3. On the Whirlwind brand - I have lost track of who now owns them and manufacturers them.
> This is not a big deal, because I have not bought new in 15 years.
> However, the "dime a dozen" days for used has long passed - you could get them n great shape, very cheap, in the economic downturn and when the domestic furniture industry was collapsing. Now - not so much
> All the WW used equipment - both 1000 and 212 - seem to hover in the $3,500 - $4,000 range. I kid you not - 6 years ago, they were half that at most.
> Very big selection used on ex-Factory today
> The traditional models were the 1000R or L, and the 212R or L. The 212 means it can cut a 2 x 12, or a 3 x 8 - but check my facts if this is critical. The 1000R is smaller - top of my head, I think you can go 1 x 12 or 2 x 8.

4. Modern versions - prior comments are correct - big updating of safety systems.
> Enlarged safety enclosure. Dual-palm buttons. Some have air-prox-sensors wired in to controls. Etc., etc., etc.
> Personally, I prefer the older models with fewer safety controls and features. And - NO - this is not strange.
> I know perfectly well what appropriate safety controls/features are required, given the specific application for that specific saw. Off-the-shelf new models have all the safety features and controls that anyone in any industry or application has ever devised, along with the help of the lawyers for their insurance company. I get the job done very well, without extraneous stuff that ads no value, and decreases production. Rant OVer.

5. On the L v R designation - this take a bit to explain:
> primary function is in defect-cutting long components into "best value" cut to length, or just repetitive cuts of a specific length. Think of a window manufacturer, or a finger jointing operations.
> The L means the blade is to the Left side of the cabinet. The right 3/4 of the table top is dished out - so that the fast-moving operator can easily grab the long end, to advance it through the blade for the next cut.
> Prior was a comment on the prevalence of the L - did not read thru it - sorry - but most people are right-handed, which means your right hand is moving the stock R-to-L, so you want the L
> Since I have never [well, almost never] done finger jointing, the L v R never mattered to me, and I always fill in the dished out part of the table with UHMW. I don't need it dished. I don't like it dished. I don't want it dished.


6. Other brands
> I saw Omga mentioned, No expereience with their upcut saw.

> Limited experience with Industrial brand. Bottom of my list to buy, and only if I gotta get one right now and no other choices. 'Nuff said.

> at the Very Serious end of the scale is Northfield. Top-of-the-line. Hands-down To the point that, for most of my applications, it is more that a required, so out of the price range. However - when I need something with larger- that normal throat capacity, this is the place. WW on steriods and SGH [saw grotwh hormones].

> When I am in the market, I first look for Lauderdale-Hamilton.
> Very solid.
> Designed, built, and serviced from NE Mississippi. Solid family-owned company.
> Most of the equipment they produce tends to be more high-tech [see their automated RoboChop - the high volume, programmable version of the upcut saw].
> I have also worked with them on custom-design-and-build equipment. Low-tech to computer-controlled. Solid stuff. Cost v Value always what I need - and the $$ ain't small, but the company is excellent.
> L-H's upcut - the Simple Saw - is very solid, competes with anything out there, and new is often within reasonable reach of the used @ $4k. There are sometimes used ones out there - I just saw a few on Ex-Factory.
> there aren't as many used L-H out there as there are Whirlwind - reflects years in that business niche, and units sold over decades.

This is not an infomercial for L-H. Just passing along my observations. I spend money there for a reason - ath that reson is not "I am an idiot".

Over the ears, I probably have bought 10 - 12 of L-H, 3 - 4 Industrial, and dozens of WW 1000 + 212 total [but 80/20 between 212/1000, because I want that larger throat] plus 4 - 6 of the Northfield - Big-A$$ versions of the other brands for specialized applications - I an't using these critters on picture frames, I can guarantee you that.


Whew. back to my day off.

Good luck

[J.R. Rutter]

I have a Whirlwind, they are now owned by CTD in California. I'm with Max that the old Whirlwinds are good for rough cutting, but the are better saws for cleaner cuts. Razor makes a good one, and Omga was mentioned already. A saw with linear guides will do better than one using a single pivot point to swing the blade up. The LH saw is more natural for me because my dominant hand is handling the longer incoming pieces. ANd mine is locaed on the outfeed of the moulder, like Peter mentioned.

[Max Neu]

I have alot of experience with both Whirlwind,and Omga.Before I went out on my own,I worked at a high end cabinet shop,and we used a Whirlwind for cutting door parts and face frame material.It worked OK,but I alway's felt like it was a little crude for the type of work we were doing.Once I started my own business and got into a financial position to get a good cutoff saw,I asked around and did some research,and bought an Omga.I can tell you from experience,the Omga is much nicer for the type of work that I do.I bought the T421 st,it's a pneumatic upcut,only makes 90 degree cuts.They are Italian made machines,built like most industrial european machines,I would say comparable to an SCMI class of machinery.They may be a liitle lighter than a Whirlwind,mostly due to a smaller motor,they are direct drive,so they don't need a huge motor like the belt drive machines.My saw will cut through 8/4 hard maple likes it's not even there,I have cut 4x4's of red oak with no hesitation.I am not trying to talk you out of a Whirlwind,but I would look around and make your decision based on what you will be using it for.Also,keep an open mind to getting a CNC stop for it,if not now,then down the road.It will dramatically increase the speed and accuracy of these types of saws.