Grizzly vs. Busybee tools

[rudy de haas]

Hi:

I've been trying to get myself to buy some grizszly gear (G0675 and G0690) despite their refusal to take responsibility for what UPS charges their
Canadian customers. As part of that I traced some of the mfg work back to China and Taiwan and then discovered that the
factories sell very similar products to a company called BusyBee tools (busybeetools.com) here in Canada.

Busybee has a very nice store in Calgary, and the people there were very helpful when I was there this Saturday. I saw no important differences between their cx20X line of table saws and the comparable grizzly line. (Note: They have a contractor style 10" table saw on sale right now that's pretty great at only $475 cdn - the riving knfie is not mounted on the carrier and (I'm guessing) won't be used much. But it's a nice machine and the price is right.

However.. does anyone know what the relationship, if any, is between Grizzly and Busybee? and where does Shop Fox fit into the picture?

[Mike Kees]

Hi:

I've been trying to get myself to buy some grizszly gear (G0675 and G0690) despite their refusal to take responsibility for what UPS charges their
Canadian customers. As part of that I traced some of the mfg work back to China and Taiwan and then discovered that the
factories sell very similar products to a company called BusyBee tools (busybeetools.com) here in Canada.

Busybee has a very nice store in Calgary, and the people there were very helpful when I was there this Saturday. I saw no important differences between their cx20X line of table saws and the comparable grizzly line. (Note: They have a contractor style 10" table saw on sale right now that's pretty great at only $475 cdn - the riving knfie is not mounted on the carrier and (I'm guessing) won't be used much. But it's a nice machine and the price is right.

However.. does anyone know what the relationship, if any, is between Grizzly and Busybee? and where does Shop Fox fit into the picture?

Hi Rudy ,I have followed a few of your posts,and finally decided to join in . I think you said earlier that you lived in Lethbridge? If you do, you should consider shipping Grizzly tools to "the border storage" in Sweetgrass. It would be a short one hour drive to big savings. The phone number is 406 335 4040. Our family ships stuff there all the time. Grizzly and Busy Bee as I understand it are owned by two brothers. Grizzly sold in the U.S. until a few years ago when they began shipping to canada also. Alot of the machines are very similar as they both are importers of machinery from Taiwan and China . I have never owned any of their equipment. I t is very hard to find info on Busy Bee stuff,whereas Grizzly is all over forums etc.

[mreza Salav]

The owners of the two companies are in fact brothers. Aside from that relationship I *think* many of their tools come from the same factory (as they look identical). FYI I have cross-used parts from one machine on another and they fit perfectly fine.

[rudy de haas]

hi:

Thanks - we usually just bring stuff into Whitefish (ski resort) but sending things to Montana Shipping Outlet-Sweetgrass can often make sense too. It's only $20 for their service and they have forklifts available.

I asked grizzly about shipping to Montana, they offered to find a store and forward place - and I let them to see what would happen - and they
eventually offered the UPS depot in Great Falls - but no cost change on freight!

As I've said before I don't care who they use and my issue isn't with Grizzly - one customer service rep with Dept of Motor vehicles experience does not
a company make - my problem is that I have no alternative to paying whatever UPS asks on on delivery - and no recourse if that amount seems absurd.

[ken masoumi]

I have never bought anything from Grizzly but have heard from other woodworkers that the UPS charges are very reasonable if you fill the importation form that grizzly sends you which is called: UPS power of attorney for entry of a single importation.
It's better to contact Grizzly and get the latest info.
Good luck.

[rudy de haas]

Ken:

My experience with UPS is that the charges are somewhat unpredictable and if you disagree with what they ask, that's too bad for you - your only choices are to pay up (and good luck getting anything back from them) or refuse the shipment. As I've explained elsewhere, this is an easy problem for grizzly to fix but not something I, as a customer, want to have to deal with.

[Mike Chalmers]

UPS seems to be almost as universally distrusted as is Air Canada. Not surprising, they both have the same motto.

'we're not happy until you're not"

[scott spencer]

The owners of the two companies are in fact brothers. Aside from that relationship I *think* many of their tools come from the same factory (as they look identical). FYI I have cross-used parts from one machine on another and they fit perfectly fine.

That's my understanding too.

Shop Fox is associated with Grizzly, and is owned by the same guy, but sells through a dealer network. SF and Griz tools are sometimes similar/identical, but some are unique to the brand.

FWIW, the G0690/691 and the Craftex CX200/201 look to be from the same stable:

[Scott Rychnovsky]

I will add that I have seen exactly the same type of complaint on a different forum about completely different types of equipment. The only common feature was the capriciousness of UPS charges when shipping to Canada. It makes me think UPS is the problem rather than the companies from which you are ordering. I did not recall any good solution on the other forum except buying in Canada or shipping to a US location and picking it up.

Good luck!

Scott

Ken:

My experience with UPS is that the charges are somewhat unpredictable and if you disagree with what they ask, that's too bad for you - your only choices are to pay up (and good luck getting anything back from them) or refuse the shipment. As I've explained elsewhere, this is an easy problem for grizzly to fix but not something I, as a customer, want to have to deal with.

[Don Quan]

My experience in buying a G1023RLW a couple of years ago was that there were no surprises in having the saw shipped to southeastern Ontario. That is, the purchase price included freight, and the UPS brokerage charge was covered by Grizzly (UPS charged, but Grizzly rebated the charge in the purchase price). The only additional charge that UPS billed was the HST, or only GST if you're in Alberta, but that is a known tax, and not subject to variation by UPS. Lastly, the other factor in importing US purchases will be the FX rate, which is controlled by how you come up with payment (through a US bank account, or through a credit card).

Grizzly cabinet saws have a 1 year warranty, whereas BusyBee cabinet saws had a 3 year warranty. There are times where the landed cost of a Grizzly saw in Canada is about the same for the BB saw, when BB has a sale on. One other factor to consider is customer service - Grizzly has a favorable reputation; BB is spotty and is very likely to depend on the local store staff. If you live near the Calgary store and their staff are focused on you the customer, then you're in luck.

[rudy de haas]

Thanks!

Now that you guys have clued me in about the relationships I understand better.

FYI: here's the breakdown on a basic set of tools:

Busybee Calgary - CT146 contractor saw $475 (a genuine bargain, I think). Two blades (freud, thin kerf, 24 and 60 T ) $110; CX08 8" jointer (same as girzzly 490)
$1,149 (Also a bargain by local standards); dewalt DW735 $545 (better than Lowes, not as good as on-line offers). Total: $2,279 before 5% GST and assuming in store (225 KM from my house) pickup.

Grizzly: G0675 10" jointer/planer - $1150, G0715P cabinet saw - $795, delivery UPS to the door $298, brokerage: first $28 x 2 covered) Exchange at ).92 cdn.
2,438 before 5% GST.

The difference is: Grizszly costs $160 more plus whatever UPS charges may, or may not, get added at the door.

Anyone disagree that the grizzly tools are sufficently better to justify the few additional dollars and UPS risk?

[David Kumm]

If I were looking for very similar Asian hobby machines, I'd pay more for a brick and mortar store where I could check the machines, examine the tables, check for flatness or return if necessary. Price differences here are irrelevant vs the ability to examine what you buy. I'd also take the floor model jointer if the tables were flat. Dave

[scott spencer]

If I were looking for very similar Asian hobby machines, I'd pay more for a brick and mortar store where I could check the machines, examine the tables, check for flatness or return if necessary. Price differences here are irrelevant vs the ability to examine what you buy. I'd also take the floor model jointer if the tables were flat. Dave

Especially considering that the G0715P has had the same alignment issues as the R4512 and Cman 21833....that particular saw is not something I'd want to risk in your situation. Some of their table saws have an excellent track record, but no matter how many times that I read that the issues with the G0715P have been resolved, someone else gets another one with the same issues.

[Wade Lippman]

Anyone disagree that the grizzly tools are sufficently better to justify the few additional dollars and UPS risk?

It would certainly be worth $160 to me to have them delivered. That assumes they are the same tools.
I used to import from China and a factory's price depended on the tolerances specified. It is a lot cheaper to make parts that sorta fit than to make them that fit precisely; or to use thinner steel.
It is entirely possible that Busy Bee buys better tools than Grizzly from the same factory that look identical.
But of course it is also possible that Grizzlys are better, that they are in fact identical. I sure don't know.

[Rick Fisher]

The biggest consideration for a Canadian is CSA .. its actually an issue if you ever have a fire or similar. Some of the Grizzly stuff is now CSA ... some of the shop fox is too .. All of the Craftex will be due to Busy Bee being Canadian ..