I do not understand a pull cut with a bowl gouge

[Brian Kent]

Every time I try to imitate what I see with a pull cut on the wing of a bowl gouge, it digs in. I know I am seeing / doing something wrong but I can't figure out what it is. Any recommendations to try tomorrow? Where is the balance of the tool, or the cutting spot?

Thanks in advance

[John Keeton]

Reed Gray can probably help here, but most bowls are face grain and a pull cut on the inside would be cutting into the grain, resulting in tear out and possible catches.

[Jeff Gilfor]

The secret is how you gouge is shaped, where on the gouge edge you cut, and where on the wood piece you are using it.

The gouge must have swept back wings. Don't need to be dramatic, but I've not yet been able to do a pull cut with a traditionally ground gouge. Also, the sides need to be slightly convex from the flute. You can get by with exactly level sides, but concave sides will catch.

You need to hold the handle way down as you place the front 25% of the edge to the spinning wood. Raise handle until you hit the sweet spot, and lightly press while drawing the blade towards you. Maintain slight pressure (to keep the bevel rubbing) with the non-dominant hand as you pull across the surface.

Usually, this is the cut that I use when I can't get behind the foot of a bowl, when it's chucked by the foot, and I want to shape the side from foot to rim. I really struggle to get around into a position behind the piece to do a push cut, as I feel that it give a cleaner finish. I don't think you want to use this on the interior of a bowl. You CAN, but why would you cut "uphill" unless you like sanding.

Videos, mentors, and your local woodturner's club will help more than my imperfect explanation.

[Robert Henrickson]

The gouge should have swept-back wings.

And the usual advice -- get someone to help you in person if you can.

I use a pull cut on both interior and exterior. On the interior, I use it primarily for hogging out the center of the bowl while using push cuts for the actual side of the interior of the bowl. Finishing cuts are possible, but can go 'wrong'. On the exterior I use pull cuts for both shaping and finishing cuts. Orientation of the grain, irregularities of grain, and other factors can influence which cut to use.

[John Thorson]

Have you seen the Glenn Lucas videos? Great camera work on the pull cut and the push cut in either of the two videos. First, let's not confuse the pull cut with a shear scrape or other scrape with the gouge. A scraping angle is when the edge of the tool is at 90 degrees or less to the surface of the wood. A 'cutting angle' is when the edge of the tool is over 90 degrees to the surface of the wood. A 'pull cut' is when the handle of the tool is 'ahead' of the cutting edge - doesn't matter if you are pulling or pushing the tool.

Glen demonstrates a very safe and easily-controlled pull cut where he starts by rubbing the bevel and then rotates the cutting edge near the tip of the tool into the wood just enough to take a very light cut riding the bevel the whole time. The edge is cutting at a 45 degree shearing angle and gives a very good surface. The key in any cut is control of the edge of the tool and locking the handle into your hip and making the cut with your legs with your hands concentrating on the edge of the tool helps a lot here.

As mentioned above seeing this live helps a lot.

[Brian Kent]

I will check out the Glen Lucas videos. And I should have said I am only talking about the outside of a bowl. I will also check the sweep and see it it the same amount or different than what I have right now.

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Brian,
Believe it or not, a "pull cut" can be a cut made toward you or away from you. A pull cut is when the handle leads the cut, a push cut is when the handle is behind the cutting edge. Done properly, both are bevel riding cuts and should not allow a catch. My favorite pull cut on the outside of a bowl is from bottom to top, with the handle dropped and leading the cut while the bevel is riding. Dropping the handle puts the cutting edge in shearing position and allows a very clean cut. However, again working from the bottom toward the top of a bowl but with the cutting tip leading the cut and the handle following makes the classic bevel riding "push cut" that also can produce a fine finish. Which is better is one of those topics to be avoided. It is handy to know both and to be able to perform both right handed and left handed.
I can't imagine a pull cut on the inside of a side grain bowl since that would surely produce a nasty catch ot at least tear the grain.
I believe there was a dual demo done at a AWW symposium a few years ago with Mike Mahoney demonstrating the push cut while Stuart Batty did the pull cut. They worked simultaneously. I saw the video somewhere on the web. It showed both cuts.
You can also look up Lyle Jamieson who also demonstrates both cuts on a you tube video. Look them up. Very informative.
faust

[Jeffrey J Smith]

Brian: Lyle Jamieson has a good video up on YouTube that may help - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2xHHxTs4Yg

[Reed Gray]

Well, if you ever have a chance to see Mike Mahoney and Stuart Batty do their 2 Ways to Turn a Bowl demo, or can find the video, make sure to watch it. Mike uses the pull cut, and Stuart uses a push cut. The only thing I can think of that might be causing you to have catches is if you are holding your tool level, then rolling it till you have the bevel rubbing, then starting the cut. This would have the bevel pointing straight up, and when it engages, it would be similar to using a scraper with the handle low. Come off the bevel even a tiny bit and it the cutting edge slams into the wood with no bevel support. If you drop the handle, then when you roll it into the wood, it is at a shear angle, and will cut fine.

As for how swept back you need your gouge nose, that depends on personal preference. For sure, you can not use a spindle roughing gouge profile, as in little or no sweep, for this cut, but you do need some sweep. Mike Mahoney uses a 40/40 grind. Glen Lucas uses a way swept back design. Both work fine. It can be used for both roughing (I think Glen Lucas is the guy who has the dumpster bin and directs all of his turning shavings into it while he turns), and for finish cuts, which is what Lyle is doing. Most of the time, you are behind the wood and pulling your tool towards yourself, with the handle leading the way, which is why we call it a pull cut. The handle can also be behind the cutting edge, which would make it more of a push cut, except that you are pulling. You can also stand on the other side and push with the same orientation of your handle. Confused yet? I don't use it. I prefer the headstock to be down at the end, so I can stand up straight, keep the tool close to my body, and push, which is my finish cut.

Robert, I am trying to figure out how you can use a pull cut inside of a bowl. Some times I do put aside my beloved scrapers for roughing out the inside of a bowl, and use a gouge. I start on the edge of the bowl rather than the center, and push in towards the center. I don't go all the way to the center though because with this flatter trajectory, that goes into the grain rather than down through it, you end up head butting the end grain. So, I leave a cone shaped tower in the center. To get rid of this, I roll the gouge over on the side, and starting from the center, pull towards the outside. This is not a bevel rubbing cut, but more of a scrape, with the handle held more level. I would guess that you can drop the handle, and rub the bevel though. Is that kind of what you are doing?

I went back to review this clip. It has been a while. Interesting thing for me to note here is that when using the pull cut for roughing the outside, it starts as a pull cut, then as I round the corner, it turns more into a push cut, so my body stays in one spot. I do show what I do with that center tower as well. Looks more like a bevel roughing cut rather than a scrape, but I guess I vary that cut a lot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0qkpDBcgfg

robo hippy

[Wally Dickerman]

Confused yet Brian?.....Well try this...You can pull a push cut, you can push a pull cut and you can start a sweeping push cut that ends up with a pull cut that you are pushing away from you.

It would be even more confusing if I tried to explain further but it's all true....

[Dale Miner]

Confused yet Brian?.....Well try this...You can pull a push cut, you can push a pull cut and you can start a sweeping push cut that ends up with a pull cut that you are pushing away from you.

It would be even more confusing if I tried to explain further but it's all true....

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[robert baccus]

All good advice yeah. One tip to remember on any normal gouge is the flute at right angles to the bowl side is very forgiving. The more you twist it clockwise the bigger the cut and the more aggressive it becomes. Yes you can push or pull on the inside of the bowl--just find that sweet spot in the twist. It also changes with wood species and handle elevation. The best things in life are confusing.