Hand plane & Walnut question

[Jonathan Gennaro]

Hey all,

I'm fairly new to woodworking. Been only doing it for 6 months. Been moving through different techniques with different tools and now I've moved onto planes. My current project is 2 nightstands. A few weeks ago I decided to purchase a new hand planer. I bought a Stanley sweetheart #4. I've had some old planers, but they were nothing special and didn't want to restore them. As I use it more and more, I find myself REALLY enjoying it.

I decided I wanted to plane all the pieces I made for the nightstands and I'm just not I'm doing it right. They're walnut and I tend to get some tear out. Is it because the blade isn't sharp enough?

Sorry if this is a really noob question but hand planes are completely new to me haha.

So heres a few of my questions w/ pictures.

1 ) Compared to the planers I had, the blade was pretty damn sharp out of the box. I've been using that since. Right now I only have a 1000 grit stone, but would like to buy a 16,000 grit glass stone. Is that to big of a jump between the both? I read a review that someone said they just used 1000 - 16000 and that worked great.

2) I was thinking about getting a Lie Nielsen low angle plane for my second one. ( save up for it ) If I'm mostly making cabinets/furniture 24 inches long about would it be better to use that, then use the #4 after?

3) I had one piece come out pretty nicely, and compared to just sanding.. the grain, and wood pops just so much more. But with my sides now, I seem to be getting some tear out around the knots, or in certain spots. It's kinda hard to see, but how would I fix that? Maybe the blade just isn't sharp enough?
You can see here..
http://i.imgur.com/rWysnyD.jpg

4) This box I had made for my dad ( fathers day ). Just kinda a random question, but could you plane a top like that?
http://i.imgur.com/Cf5qHmO.jpg

5) Is the #4 plane good enough for a finished look?

From what I read, you want the mouth closed kinda tight for a more finished look, and for knots. Right?

Anyways, just some of the random questions I have. I'm starting to obsess with the planers now compared to sanding and want to be on the right track.

Here's a picture of the piece that came out pretty nicely with only a few visible marks.
http://i.imgur.com/xUari8o.jpg


thanks

[Judson Green]

This is the plane you have? If so, its NOT sharp out of the box, I have one too. An A2 iron. You might need diamond stones to sharpen.

Welcome to the creek.

Screenshot_2014-07-09-10-50-26.jpg

[Jonathan Gennaro]

This is the plane you have? If so, its NOT sharp out of the box, I have one too. An A2 iron. You might need diamond stones to sharpen.

Welcome to the creek.

Screenshot_2014-07-09-10-50-26.jpg

Yes that's the plane I have.. OK noted.. Would this be what I want?
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/208...Grit-5-mm.aspx

Thanks

[David Eisenhauer]

Probably need to do a search here on "sharpening plane irons" or something to that effect. You are at the first stage of a whole new thing and there are guys who are good at sharpening plane irons that have listed the steps that work for them. Also, probably very good You Tube videos available to learn from. As always, there will be different guys with different ideas, but I would not get too hung up on nuances between techniques when first starting out. There are a couple-three ways to go when first starting out: wet/dry sand paper, diamond-ceramic stones or oilstones. You can start spending money chasing things before you understand the process so read up first before buying. I think a two-stone 1,000 - 1,600 grit jump is kind of big and you may even need to start a little coarser than 1,000, but read what the experts say and make up your mind after that. They will also point out where they purchase their sharpening supplies and which vendors will help the most in selling you what you really need for your own particular need. Nice box for your Dad. Good stuff.

[David Weaver]

Anything that is a polishing stone would work fine for you. The Glasstone 16k is a way to spend the most to get the least, especially from woodcraft. Pretty much anything out there that's in the 8k range or finer will be just fine for you, and something 8k may make more sense.

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kitayama8000.html

(no affiliation with the seller - but for reference, Woodcraft/JWW try to sell the same stone for $104).

1) that plane probably has a cap iron, it's a good time to learn to use it (set it very close to eliminate tearout)
2) you can buy a low angle plane, it'll probably initially be easier. Functionally, it will provide no benefit in smoothing once you learn to use a more common bevel down smoother. The only place it'd really provide much is if you're making end grain butchers blocks or cutting boards
3) cap iron and sharpness are the two things that will solve tearout problems. Scraping will, too, but there's no need to resort to it
4) you could probably plane it using a smoother and holding it on the skew - make sure the cap iron is set properly and it's sharp
5) Any decent #4 has the capability to smooth plane anything you're likely to ever use

Google "setting a cap iron" and find an article on wood central to get an idea on setting the cap iron.

[Judson Green]

I don't know, others are better qualified to answer that question, but i use diamond stones from "eze-lap". Works OK still harder to sharping than vintage stuff.

[Judson Green]

David it has a cap iron but a very steep one, not the curvy ones on a vintage 4. I rounded mine over a bit, sort of bull nose.

[David Weaver]

A blunt cap iron will work fine to stop tearout, it just is a little less elegant and can be a bit harder on the wood the shaving is getting rammed back toward.

[David Eisenhauer]

Quick adder - If I were you, I would not purchase another plane until I learned how to sharpen and use the ones I already had. This is that point in the process where you have to stay at a spot in the evolution for a little while until you get some basic knowledge and technique down, then you will move forward. Lots of folks buy a plane, use it-like it, but then get defeated when it gets dull. Without knowing you or your experience level, I will say (no disrespect intended at all) that it is possible that may never have even used a truly sharp plane iron yet if the new one you bought is the sharpest one you have used. Learning how to sharpen and how to adjust the plane is very, very integral to the whole process and will allow you to move ahead.

[Judson Green]

Lot of truth to that, but I found that sharping A2 steel was a real bummer and as a result I wasn't learning very fast how to sharpen. Getting a vintage plane (and for a lot less $$$) will make for a more positive feedback, better feeling about working by hand and flatten the sharping learning curve.

Just my 2¢

[Jonathan Gennaro]

Anything that is a polishing stone would work fine for you. The Glasstone 16k is a way to spend the most to get the least, especially from woodcraft. Pretty much anything out there that's in the 8k range or finer will be just fine for you, and something 8k may make more sense.

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kitayama8000.html

(no affiliation with the seller - but for reference, Woodcraft/JWW try to sell the same stone for $104).

1) that plane probably has a cap iron, it's a good time to learn to use it (set it very close to eliminate tearout)
2) you can buy a low angle plane, it'll probably initially be easier. Functionally, it will provide no benefit in smoothing once you learn to use a more common bevel down smoother. The only place it'd really provide much is if you're making end grain butchers blocks or cutting boards
3) cap iron and sharpness are the two things that will solve tearout problems. Scraping will, too, but there's no need to resort to it
4) you could probably plane it using a smoother and holding it on the skew - make sure the cap iron is set properly and it's sharp
5) Any decent #4 has the capability to smooth plane anything you're likely to ever use

Google "setting a cap iron" and find an article on wood central to get an idea on setting the cap iron.

Thank you so much. This is extremely helpful! I will look up the setting of the cap iron like you suggested. Just glancing over what I've found its the exactly what I was looking for.
I have a 1000 grit stone right now, and pick up a 8000.

[Jonathan Gennaro]

Quick adder - If I were you, I would not purchase another plane until I learned how to sharpen and use the ones I already had. This is that point in the process where you have to stay at a spot in the evolution for a little while until you get some basic knowledge and technique down, then you will move forward. Lots of folks buy a plane, use it-like it, but then get defeated when it gets dull. Without knowing you or your experience level, I will say (no disrespect intended at all) that it is possible that may never have even used a truly sharp plane iron yet if the new one you bought is the sharpest one you have used. Learning how to sharpen and how to adjust the plane is very, very integral to the whole process and will allow you to move ahead.

Yeah I don't plan on purchasing a new plane for a while until I get this one down. Yeah, compared to the other planes I've had It was alot sharper then anything I've had before. Live and learn. I'll learn to sharpen it.

[Shawn Pixley]

Welcome to the wide world of woodworking. If we knew where you lived, there could be other "creekers" who could let you try one of their planes so you'd have a reference. As to your questions:

1.) The stock blade on that Stanley isn't sharp enough. I think the gap between a 1000 and a 16,000 grit is too much. You'll need to learn to sharpen. Read up on it and try a method that works for you. There is no one right way. Sharpen, sharpen, sharpen.

2.) for your next plane I would suggest a decent jack plane. A vintage Bailey 5 is a really good choice. You could buy one and fix it up. You could buy one already tuned. You could get a LN or a LV. But after buying sharpen, sharpen, sharpen....

3.) Three things address tear out (assuming you're planing in the right direction. You are, aren't you?) if the blade is sharp. Well set cap irion, close mouth, and high angle frog. I've never used that particular plane to see whether the mouth can be closed, so I might concentrate on the cap iron. Sharpen the blade, ensure you're planing in the right direction, and tight cap iron space. Yes that can be planed to look gorgeous.

4.) Yes that could be planed but many (most) would try a card scraper given the right angle grain.

5.) Yes a good number 4 can give you a great finish. Yours? I don't know.

Did I mention sharpening? Have fun!

[Jim Koepke]

Jonathan,

Welcome to the Creek. Your profile doesn't indicate your location. If you are in the Pacific Northwest, I am one of those "other Creekers who would let you try some of my planes."

I like having a 1000, 4000 and 8000 grit water stones. Often I will just touch up an edge on the 4000 and 8000 stone.

I seem to be getting some tear out around the knots, or in certain spots.

The area around knots is particularly tricky. The grain seems to twist every which way and the wood is more swirly in the area around knots.

If at all possible going to a Lie-Nielsen tool event would beneficial in helping you to learn a bit more about hand planes.

jtk

[Robert Hazelwood]

I will echo the others who mentioned the cap iron. It makes a huge difference in tearout, and basically enables you to plane almost without regard to the grain direction. For me it is night and day difference planing knots and such with a closely set chipbreaker.

As for sharpening, I would get a cheap honing guide ($10 or $15) and some wet/dry sandpaper (220, 400, 600, 1000/1200, and 2000) and use them on a flat surface (a cheap glass cutting board works well). That way you can start getting sharp blades and learning what sharp feels like, and get on with your current project. Then when you have a little more experience and don't have the pressures of a project weighing on you, look up nicer sharpening setups and make a well-researched decision. There is an overwhelming amount of information/opinion about sharpening...it takes a while to sift through, and the equipment isn't that cheap. The sandpaper will get the job done without too much initial expense.