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Thread: Scratches on End Grain

  1. #46
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Port Angeles, WA
    Posts
    60
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Fournier View Post
    Another consideration for the OP. If the blade is brand new, grind back a further 1/16" and re-try. Depending on the production process, QC etc.. it may be that the blade is not tempered consistently throughout and the fresh edge is simply too hard at the current cutting edge.
    Yeah, this is especially noticeable with NOS irons and chisels (in my personal experience and from what I've read). Grinding back 1/16" will usually get to steel that holds an edge without chipping, but may take more. This drove me crazy with a vintage NOS single iron in a mitre plane I made last year. Those same scratches appeared in end grain after a couple of strokes.

  2. #47
    George, the difference between what you're talking about and the JWW listing is that you're talking about perfection or rarity that's only available in one place. The serious collectors love that stuff.

    But a plane that you can get as many copies of as you want for $1000 or $1100, well, a collector might buy a few of those, too, to sit on, but they are unlikely to go to a catalog and buy the same thing for $2000. It's not so much the expensive good I was talking about in terms of targeting beginners and spouses, etc, it was asking so much more money for the same thing as someone else sells for about half as much and really talking it up.

    I'm reminded of some of the online stanley tool dealers who ask three times or more as much for a plane and use the word "rare and excellent" for everything they sell. Some of them are a bit more old school (priced like they may have priced things before stanley planes could just be bought from every corner of the universe at a click of the button), but still practice business as if they don't know about the rest of the market - hoping either to find a loyal buyer or someone who doesn't do any comparison shopping at all. There's a dealer with, for example, sort-of-OK-looking round sided bedrock 605s for $398. And transitionals for $180 - one of which I have in better condition than theirs and couldn't find someone who would pay $30.

    I am by no means bothered by rich customers and collectors, though, they are usually just looking for something very specific and truly rare.
    Last edited by David Weaver; 07-15-2014 at 9:50 AM.

  3. #48
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tokyo, Japan
    Posts
    1,550
    Quote Originally Posted by george wilson View Post
    Buying a $2000.00 Japanese plane sounds like the wannabe artist who will spend $400.00 on a Kolinski(sp?) brush!! Must be quite a few of them out there,or they'd stop offering them.
    I am always irritated when I see ads for $2,000 Japanese planes. Obviously someone is buying them.

    There are a number of pieces, parts, and factors to look at. The blade. The body, block or "dai." The carving on the blade. The packaging. The reputation.

    The amount of labor that goes into making a very very good plane blade is more than to make a cheap plane blade, of course. And we can all agree it is worth paying more for a blacksmith's skills and expertise SO LONG AS THE RESULT IS A SUPERIOR PRODUCT. But there is no justifiable reason a top-quality hand-forged blade should cost more than $200-$300. The labor and material expenditures past this point cannot be accounted for on a balance sheet, IMO. The chipbreaker might add another $30.

    A good block or dai is very important, but the consumer pays a lot more for perfect grain and perfect cuts. Perfect grain helps a lot in terms of stability, but the perfect cut that Japanese consumers prefer adds a lot to the cost, in the same way one can easily pay $100 dollars or more for a perfect melon, or $15 for a perfect apple over here. The very best dai, custom cut to match the blade, should not cost more than $150.

    The carving on the blade is seldom done by the blacksmith, but is subbed out to a specialist. It costs about $30 extra per blade, and adds nothing to the performance. For Americans that cannot read the characters (not that they really mean anything) carving makes little sense. Kinda like a fancy paint job on a car, I guess.

    The paulownia wood boxes are silly, IMO. I can't imagine housing an oak and steel handtool in a soft wood box that will break apart if dropped on concrete with the plane inside. As useful as stilletto-heel hunting boots.

    And then there is the calligraphy on the boxes and sometimes even on the plane body. But you can guess my opinion on that.

    So a top-of-the line (in terms of performance) entirely handmade, handforged, un-pimped plane from the shop of a very experienced and capable blacksmith should not cost more than $480 retail in Japan. So assuming the price is doubled when it travels to America, that is still less than $1,000.

    Of all the hand-forged edged tools, plane blades are easiest to make, and require the least skill. Simple fact. Chisels are much more difficult. Saws are the most difficult of all by several magnitudes.

    There are plenty of blacksmiths that have figured out how to charge more for appearance and inflated reputation than for performance. Worse is those that try to sell average (or worse) planes by smiths lacking even the reputation at inflated prices by pimping them.

    There is one famous smith, no longer among us, who has long made a very good blade, and who's reputation went crazy because of the Kezuroukai. In fact, I own some of his products from before his rise to great fame. With his increased fame, he began pimping is planes with dramatic carving, acid etching, kiri boxes, silk lining, and calligraphy (shudder). Here in Tokyo, his products are sitting in the tool store cabinets priced at $2,400. Are theses tarted-up planes made differently, or do they cut better than the $350 plane he made before his rise to fame that I bought from old-stock (with a very very nice dai) a few years ago?

    Hell no.

    Towards the end of his life, this blacksmith was having blades made by others and was having his name carved into them, and selling them at inflated prices. That is how insane it became.

    But he was only following the path that many blacksmiths had trod before him. In Japan, this path was first pioneered by the swordsmiths.

    $2,000 for a Japanese plane only makes sense to the collector.

  4. #49
    Late to contribute, but I will add a little. Recently I reconditioned a Stanley number 4 that had a little pitting on the sole. I lapped out 90% of the pitting and stopped because it was nice and flat. After tuning the rest of the plane I used it for a while. It cut perfect at first, but after a few minutes of use I started seeing the same lines in the wood and noticed chipping of the blade (honed at 32 deg). I did this a couple of times and noticed the smallest shiny fleck on the board. It came from the mouth of the plane, I think. I lapped the bottom again to remove all pitting, cleaned the wood with a metal brush, and the plane worked fine.

    Short answer - be sure the sole is in good shape. Especially around the mouth.
    that you also aspire to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you...
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