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Thread: Whats causing this chatter?

  1. #1

    Whats causing this chatter?

    Hello guys,
    I was planing the top of a simple pine stool tonight and no matter what I seemed to do, I got chatter during the first 2" of each pass across about half the width of the board. I was using my MF #9 (Stanley #4) with a very sharp Veritas blade, chipbreaker set as close to the edge as I could get it (maybe 1/64"). The frog was positioned for smoothing, even though I was taking a heavier shaving. The top is 8"x 24", 3/4" thick, clean with no knots.

    I checked the grain - its pretty straight there and I was planing in the right direction. I thought perhaps I had an odd patch of grain and tried working that area from the other direction. I got tearout.

    I resharpened. No change.

    I tried bearing down harder at the start, both to seat the front of the plane and to perhaps hold it down. No change.

    I reduced the thickness of the shavings as far as I could - down to smoothing range. No change.

    I tried a #5, just to experiment. No change.

    Finally, I changed to my trusty #2. No more chatter. That fixed it. But I dont really understand why. Can someone explain this to me? I think I know that the #2 would follow any small hollows that the MF9 would ride across. But the MF 9 was trying to take a shaving in this area - it was just skipping/chattering.

    It would help me to learn the 'why' here instead of just putzing around like I did and stumbling into an answer.

    Thanks for your insights!
    Fred
    Last edited by Frederick Skelly; 07-14-2014 at 7:49 PM. Reason: typos
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

    “If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals.”

  2. #2
    Turn the plane askew a few degrees to start your cut and it should engage without any trouble.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by David Weaver View Post
    Turn the plane askew a few degrees to start your cut and it should engage without any trouble.

    Thank you David. I forgot to mention that I tried that too. It worked with the #2, but not the MF9. Maybe I had it skewed too much? I was probably skewed 30 degrees. (That skew angle was one of the few things I didnt try to vary.)

    Fred

  4. #4
    There may be some play in the tote. Millers falls planes have an issue where the handles shrink and their rods don't have much more room to tighten.

    Well, actually that's more of a problem with the larger handles that have a screw at the front of the foot. I don't know if it's an issue on the 4 sized planes where you otherwise would think the handle was tight. Check it though.

    I don't know what else would cause a chatter at first. I'd back the frog off a little bit, it doesn't need to be super tight at the mouth in the front, and then make sure every screw on the whole plane is tight and the iron is bedded flat against the frog.

    If that doesn't work, I'd use the stanley.

  5. #5
    All right. Ill try those tips tommorrow night. Thanks again David!
    Fred

  6. #6
    On all my Stanleys I have the frog set equal to the mouth portion of the sole. In other words, the bedding of the plane gives support all the way down onto the sole of the plane. So the mouth is usually rather wide.

    Having a thicker Ray Iles blade in my #4 also helps to avoid this problem. But I don't want to send you directy to the shop to spend money.

  7. #7
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    I think David about covered it. Especially the part about making sure the blade is flat against the frog and the screws are tight.

    Now for the more obnoxious side of me. I got to let off a little steam :
    (may actually help though and FOR ME some of these matter)

    1/64th breaker setting. Paaaaahhhhhlllllleeeeezzzzz. That's like a mile. You need to be setting this thing with a micromillomeezontinybitO'nuthin. Send it off to Cal Tech or MIT and have them set it while looking through their scanning electron microscope. (it's the ONLY way).

    When I get this chatter it means my blade is dull. Yah, yah . . . I know what you said. Are we talking jig sharpened or thumb sticking up at arms length sharpened ? ? ?

    Stropped ? Strop bad. Fine stone and jig good.

    Free hand and stropped, for everyone else but David, (I think) means a roundy bevel facet and skating along on the microscopic roundy rather than clearance behind a sharp edge.

    You made sure you weren't planing against the grain ? Why ? Now you tell me I shouldn't do this . . . and after I planed that whole purple heart work bench and bubinga dining table much or most of it against the grain some where along the length of each plank. Huh. Must be those sharpening jigs and bevel up planes. Oh well . . . now I know.
    Last edited by Winton Applegate; 07-15-2014 at 2:40 AM.
    Sharpening is Facetating.
    Good enough is good enough
    But
    Better is Better.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Winton Applegate View Post
    Stropped ? Strop bad.
    Oh winton, you dirty bird!

    Free hand and stropped, for everyone else but David, (I think) means a roundy bevel facet and skating along on the microscopic roundy rather than clearance behind a sharp edge.


    Well, there are some people who do that on purpose - whatever still gives clearance but gives the edge enough strength I guess. I try not to round anything, you're right. Inevitably a little happens, but I try not to let it happen any more than the minimal amount possible because careless rounding literally starts the iron with part of the wear profile already there.

    I know warren has mentioned that he uses a flat bevel. Warren is a pro, though, and I am a lazy amateur. If the bevel on my irons gets too large and it's not easy to raise a wire edge, then I grind some more.

    and after I planed that whole purple heart work bench and bubinga dining table


    That's left a permanent mental scar, eh?

  9. #9
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    Stropping,like everything else,takes judgement and skill to not round off the edge too much. No,we do not want the plane skating along on a rounded area just BEHIND the cutting edge. Stropping on a piece of mdf charged with LV green buffing compound helps reduce rounding. But,the MOST reduction MUST come from your own hand reducing the motion that causes rounding. I get a laugh every time I see a stupid ACTOR sharpening his knife in a movie. He holds it nearly VERTICAL on the strop and SLOWLY strops it. Or,SLOWLY draws a stone the length of his sword blade. Yeah,right!! That's really going to give him a good edge-in 200 years!!

    If you cannot control your stropping well enough,do not strop. I know a quite skilled craftsmen who does not strop. But,he sharpens his carving tools at such a high angle,the chisels need to be held close to vertical to make them cut!!! Yet,he does most excellent work in spite of it. This same craftsman made a wooden plane with a 3/4" open mouth IN FRONT of the blade. He saw no reason for a tight mouth!!! Yet,it worked for him!!!

    This guy is a self trained,self educated person. You can't teach him anything. What does all this mean? PERSONAL SKILL trumps all else. I do many things the hard way myself.
    Last edited by george wilson; 07-15-2014 at 9:34 AM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winton Applegate View Post

    1/64th breaker setting. Paaaaahhhhhlllllleeeeezzzzz. That's like a mile. You need to be setting this thing with a micromillomeezontinybitO'nuthin. Send it off to Cal Tech or MIT and have them set it while looking through their scanning electron microscope. (it's the ONLY way).
    I expected Dave to have a hernia or possibly a stroke when he read this!

  11. #11
    I never actually measured a cap iron setting on anything, so I always assume that if someone has a breaker close enough to straighten a thick shaving, they probably have it closer than they think.

    I just hope the rumor that its "really hard" to set a cap iron close enough for it to be effective goes away. I think it's gone away to some extent.

  12. #12
    Yes, Winton is the last one who thinks that it is difficult.

  13. #13
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    " I do many things the hard way myself.[/QUOTE]

    George, I thought I was the only one; suddenly I feel like I am in very good company!

  14. #14
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    I'm self taught too,in many aspects. And,I DO make a lot of things the hard way,since at the time I had no one to show me an easier way.

  15. #15
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    Did you apply some oil to the sole of the plane?

    Is the new blade properly engaged at the frog?
    The Veritas blades are beefy, but if you've forced it into a curve
    along the length, it may be trying to bend as you plane.

    I have a MF 9 that cuts fine, with the stock blade.

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