Our 'Brave New World' with Medical Profiling

[Chuck Wintle]

why is it anyones business if one is fat or thin? This obsession that we must 'look" a certain way is not right. Next thing you know those who do not conform physically to a certain ideal will be shuffled into euthanasia centers to be put down.

[Scott Shepherd]

Without the Internet, all those relational databases wouldn't be able to talk to each other, relating their stories about you or I.

The Internet is as ubiquitous as electricity. It is the arteries through which commerce must flow. Facebook has it right. We are the product.

Greg, you're taking me too literally. Certainly it's the "internet" that's allowing computers to communicate. When I said I worried about non-internet stuff more than internet, I wasn't referring to the connectivity of computers, but rather things like online related tasks like surfing the internet, emailing, etc.

My point being that you could throw your computer in the trash can and the information that concerns me more than anything else would still continue, having nothing at all to do with the people you email, the sites you visit, or anything else you might do with your own computer.

[Curt Harms]

why is it anyones business if one is fat or thin? This obsession that we must 'look" a certain way is not right. Next thing you know those who do not conform physically to a certain ideal will be shuffled into euthanasia centers to be put down.

Not quite but I would not be surprised in the not-too-distant future to see those who exhibit 'high risk' behaviors - smoking comes to mind, obesity may be next - to not receive high cost treatments when their illness can be blamed on their 'high risk' behavior.

[Phil Thien]

For the record, I've experienced very rude remarks from family, friends, and strangers while both running and not. My point: Although I obviously can't control comedian's comments on tv, your comment is still very far from a blanket statement.

Respectfully,

David

Can you guys give me some examples of rude comments directed at a slender person? Without some examples I'm imagining stuff like, "you're so thin you probably don't have any problems shopping for jeans."

During my college years I ran approx. 4-5 miles a day, and often 8-10 miles a day on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. I was extremely thin at this time and don't recall anyone ever saying anything hurtful about it.

[Mike Chance in Iowa]

Can you guys give me some examples of rude comments directed at a slender person? Without some examples I'm imagining stuff like, "you're so thin you probably don't have any problems shopping for jeans."

No Phil, I will not give you examples. These are not comments that should ever be repeated.

Getting back on topic, I agree with Steve/Scott. If you throw your computer in the trash, it's not preventing anyone else from still collecting all of your data every time you purchase something, rent a library book, drive down a toll road, purchase a parking pass, etc.

[Brian Elfert]

As far as the Internet goes, you have to remember that some of the data collection pays for the "free" websites we all use every day.

[Duane Meadows]

I was extremely thin at this time and don't recall anyone ever saying anything hurtful about it.

Then you were very fortunate, Phil. Rude people don't need a "good" excuse to rude!

As for data mining, there are several sides to that. Take for instance going to a bank for a loan. It requires you to give the bank certain personal info. Has for a long time. Then your payment habits are sent to credit bureaus. to collect the data. Even Utility companies report late payments. Yeah, you can not use banks... utility options are somewhat more limited depending on where you live. You want credit(basically buying on someone else's dime), there is cost involved, both in interest and anonymity. Guess what? Those folks want to know where to come after you!

Same way with "free" internet services. People seem to think they are provided out of the goodness of someone's heart! Rarely is that the case.

Gonna be that way more and more with medical info. He who pays the bills, sets the rules! And yes, that is a very scary thought.

Much of this info has been public for a long time... just took more work to obtain it!

Guess it is time for us to realize that free services of any kind, aren't really free. Use the "free" service, pay the cost. Or don't use the free service!

[David Weaver]

Can you guys give me some examples of rude comments directed at a slender person? Without some examples I'm imagining stuff like, "you're so thin you probably don't have any problems shopping for jeans."

During my college years I ran approx. 4-5 miles a day, and often 8-10 miles a day on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. I was extremely thin at this time and don't recall anyone ever saying anything hurtful about it.

We had a kid in school and then in college who we called "Bone Rack". I don't think he liked it. It's not so much whether a person is thin or fat, I think it's more about human nature of picking at anyone who is different or who could be perceived as weak. That's sort of an animalistic thing that we try, as decent people, to avoid doing. It never occurred to me in high school that "bone rack" bothered the kid who we called that, and it may not have at all. He was around us and ate normally, but that kind of thing may bother some people who see themselves as different and needing to look more "average". I was in the group of kids fighting to keep weight off, though not overweight at that time, it seemed to me and a lot of other people that we'd love to have had that metabolism.

[Phil Thien]

No Phil, I will not give you examples. These are not comments that should ever be repeated.

Oh gosh, okay. I don't want anyone to have to relive any painful memories of hurtful comments about them being normal.

[David Weaver]

why is it anyones business if one is fat or thin? This obsession that we must 'look" a certain way is not right. Next thing you know those who do not conform physically to a certain ideal will be shuffled into euthanasia centers to be put down.

Outside of health care costs, it really isn't. I am overweight, so I'm not casting stones at people who are overweight in general, but it is a simple fact that people who are overweight and obese typically have higher medical claims rates than people who are not. When we no longer pay for our care ourselves, which is essentially the case now, we're essentially having our cake and steak while knowing that only a part of it will come to us in cost because, effectively, we're ordering dinner on a combined check. Sooner or later, everyone wants cake and steak, and the bill is the same as if we'd have been paying our own way, but we don't have that choice.

I recognize that being overweight is a problem, and it's a discretionary problem for an enormous percentage of us - one that reduces quality of life, and in general, length of it, too. I would rather do something about being overweight than assert that it's my right to be overweight and suggest that it's nobody else's business - as a society, we're tied together now and there's very little that we do that doesn't affect someone else.

[Harold Burrell]

Rude comments...

Personally, I welcome them. Seriously. I am (by nature) a horrible tease. Given the opportunity, I will pick on people mercilessly.

I can be an absolute sarcastic jerk.

However, as much as I like to tease people, I even more dislike hurting people's feelings. So that sentiment "usually" seasons much of my teasings. I try not to "go there" in ways that would be too personal (of course, that depends on how well I know the individual).

As for me, well...I am pretty "thick skinned". Tease me all you want. Just be ready to get it back.

[Phil Thien]

We had a kid in school and then in college who we called "Bone Rack". I don't think he liked it. It's not so much whether a person is thin or fat, I think it's more about human nature of picking at anyone who is different or who could be perceived as weak. That's sort of an animalistic thing that we try, as decent people, to avoid doing. It never occurred to me in high school that "bone rack" bothered the kid who we called that, and it may not have at all. He was around us and ate normally, but that kind of thing may bother some people who see themselves as different and needing to look more "average". I was in the group of kids fighting to keep weight off, though not overweight at that time, it seemed to me and a lot of other people that we'd love to have had that metabolism.

I suppose.

I don't know of anyone that ate to excess because they were worried about being perceived as thin, but the medical journals are full of stories of young ladies that starve themselves (and purge) because they are worried about being perceived as overweight.

I went out to dinner with friends about six months ago. One friend is having money trouble and was working two jobs and struggling to keep his head above water. This came up because he was resistant to the idea of going to dinner to begin with, and was ordering an appetizer (only) and was only going to have water. 2nd friend was complaining of HIS money trouble, but makes > $200k/year.

And I'm sure our friend making > $200k/year thinks his problems are the same as my friend looking for two nickels to rub together, but they aren't, and my rather penniless friend was understandably confused.

I can understand that someone outside the norm in either direction (being significantly underweight included) would internalize disparaging remarks. But for people of a normal weight to say they've been on the receiving end of disparaging remarks about their weights is akin to me showing up for a Little People of America convention and saying I've been on the receiving end of hurtful comments about my average height, and expecting sympathy.

[Jim Matthews]

I don't know of anyone that ate to excess because they were worried about being perceived as thin, but the medical journals are full of stories of young ladies that starve themselves (and purge) because they are worried about being perceived as overweight.

There are two sides to this. The unrelenting pressure on young people to conform.
And the inability of the overweight to conform to an airline seat.

At a certain point, it's not longer just a personal problem.
Accommodation of a "disease" that's caused by indulgence sets up a perverse incentive.

We have to face the consequence of leaving this unchecked;
not enough longterm medical care is available, particularly for the dangerously heavy.

It's the same approach that has lead to lower morbidity and mortality from smoking,
and I would hazard a SWAG that the success of the first lead to the failure of the second.

http://ohlardy.com/mobility-scooters-walle-obesity

[Scott Shepherd]

As for data mining, there are several sides to that. Take for instance going to a bank for a loan. It requires you to give the bank certain personal info. Has for a long time. Then your payment habits are sent to credit bureaus. to collect the data. Even Utility companies report late payments. Yeah, you can not use banks... utility options are somewhat more limited depending on where you live. You want credit(basically buying on someone else's dime), there is cost involved, both in interest and anonymity. Guess what? Those folks want to know where to come after you!

I have no problem giving the bank information if I apply for a loan. That's not what's happening here. Essentially what's happening (and not with the bank, but with other institutions) is that the company is essentially selling your transaction history to the highest bidder. You wouldn't be happy if the bank took your transactions and sold them to a marketing firm who now knows you buy beer every Tuesday, frequent McDonalds for lunch, etc. If a bank did that, this country would come unglued. However, people are doing that very thing every single day WITHOUT your permission (I don't recall seeing ANY posting on ANY terminal at ANY store that says "By swiping your card, you have given us the right to collect and use data in any way we see fit". Now, if you sign up for their frequent shopper cards, there's probably that line in there. However, I'm just a guy walking in, no relationship with the store's programs, and all I do is buy a bag of chips and now you've logged that data against my debit card and started recording my shopping habits, linking them to my name and card number.

To me, that's a huge violation of privacy. I should be able to opt in or out of anything you plan to do with data collected about me.

[Phil Thien]

There are two sides to this. The unrelenting pressure on young people to conform.
And the inability of the overweight to conform to an airline seat.

At a certain point, it's not longer just a personal problem.
Accommodation of a "disease" that's caused by indulgence sets up a perverse incentive.

We have to face the consequence of leaving this unchecked;
not enough longterm medical care is available, particularly for the dangerously heavy.

It's the same approach that has lead to lower morbidity and mortality from smoking,
and I would hazard a SWAG that the success of the first lead to the failure of the second.

http://ohlardy.com/mobility-scooters-walle-obesity

I wholeheartedly agree. Mind you, I think I'm the only one in this thread that thinks it is okay for employers to be more proactive in helping employees lose weight/improve health. There is a difference between advocating for obesity and acknowledging the mean-spirited attitude many seem to have towards the overweight.

My point is we can try to be helpful without being jerks, and that too many confuse being a jerk with being helpful.