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Thread: Our 'Brave New World' with Medical Profiling

  1. #1
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    Our 'Brave New World' with Medical Profiling

    This is not my opinion, it is just sharing an article. The world we knew from five or six decades ago is changing faster than we ever knew.

    Actuaries predict your life span. Banks track your spending habits. Now, your employer can tell whether you’ll have diabetes a year from now.

    And the federal government is encouraging businesses to use that information to tell you how to eat and exercise, to “data mine” for your own good and the employer’s bottom line.

    Medical records, social media, credit card records and new activity tracking gadgets like Fitbits are being used to assess your riskiness to yourself and to the cost-conscious health care system.

    Aetna is among the companies paving the way. It’s using data analytics and interventions on its own 50,000 employees — and about 40 of the companies it insures are using them, too.

    The data explosion — some would say intrusion — is being fueled by trends in the private sector and by federal policies, including elements of Obamacare.


    Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/0...#ixzz387hMdj37
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
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  2. #2
    Obesity and obesity-related illness/disease has become the last acceptable discrimination. You can say whatever you want, do whatever you want, thin people "hate on" fat people with impunity.

  3. #3
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    I think most people figure you can't control if you are male or female, your skin color (ethnicity), your age, or your sexual orientation, but these same people figure that someone's weight is something the person can control. Someone who is obese may have an eating disorder and really can't control their weight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Thien View Post
    Obesity and obesity-related illness/disease has become the last acceptable discrimination. You can say whatever you want, do whatever you want, thin people "hate on" fat people with impunity.
    I was also reading food quotes today.

    "Pizza tastes better than it feels to be thin." - Unknown

    Be careful what you say to an overweight person or you might find out what it feels like to support all that weight when they sit on you.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
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    I know many companies are encouraging their employees to participate in biometrics data - they offer reduced health care rates for those who participate. I think the end is near - I don't want my company know that much about me. I think its really none of their business - much like it should be none of their concern what race I am or what religion I participate in or what political party I vote for. If it isn't about my job then they should stop 'helping me' - I don't want their help.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Thien View Post
    Obesity and obesity-related illness/disease has become the last acceptable discrimination. You can say whatever you want, do whatever you want, thin people "hate on" fat people with impunity.
    First, I don't think that is correct. It's been my experience that people seem to get very bent out of shape when obesity makes someone a target. So I don't see hating on obese people as being condoned generally.

    Second, discrimination is sort of a loaded word, and the way you have made the statement seems to imply the discrimination is inherently wrong--it is almost as if there is an unwritten "unjust" in front of discrimination. But I'll point out that discrimination isn't inherently wrong--discriminating between two things is perfectly acceptable in lots of different contexts, say, those running red lights (who get tickets) and those that don't (who don't get tickets). Discrimination seems--at least to me--to warrant the pejorative connotation where we change our behavior towards people who exhibit characteristics that are immutable (race, gender, age, sexual preference) or protected (religion, marital status). But that puts obesity into a tricky category, because there are clearly people who are obese because of medical conditions (or even certain environmental factors) who can't change. But there are also people who can change--eat less, eat better, exercise more. I remember reading an essay probing why it is OK to walk up to someone smoking and say "that's disgusting," but not to walk up to an obese person eating a Big Mac and tell them the same thing. In some ways there are similarities--activities that, with long term habits, endanger the person and arguably also impose societal costs by raising the health care costs of everyone. Food for thought, so to speak.

  7. #7
    It's really sad to me that people are handing over their privacy rights by the box load and it doesn't seem to be a concern for anyone. It's sad because once it's out there, it's out there. You can't unring the bell. I'm pretty geeky, but not an ubergeek and the things I have seen and read about what's being collected and the power it gives people is shocking. I suspect if most people knew what was really happening, they'd revolt against it, however, most are more concerned about who George Clooney is dating than their own privacy. Very sad state of affairs.

    This country used to represent freedom. Not so much any more. If you're tracking my every move, my every call, recording every call I make, to every contact I have, storing every email I send, logging and storing all my health information, watching all my spending, so you know when I did order a Big Mac, monitoring all my t.v usage (yes, the suppliers are already doing that), then about the only time I have any freedom is when I'm in the shower.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Shepherd View Post
    It's really sad to me that people are handing over their privacy rights by the box load and it doesn't seem to be a concern for anyone. It's sad because once it's out there, it's out there. You can't unring the bell. I'm pretty geeky, but not an ubergeek and the things I have seen and read about what's being collected and the power it gives people is shocking. I suspect if most people knew what was really happening, they'd revolt against it, however, most are more concerned about who George Clooney is dating than their own privacy. Very sad state of affairs.

    This country used to represent freedom. Not so much any more. If you're tracking my every move, my every call, recording every call I make, to every contact I have, storing every email I send, logging and storing all my health information, watching all my spending, so you know when I did order a Big Mac, monitoring all my t.v usage (yes, the suppliers are already doing that), then about the only time I have any freedom is when I'm in the shower.
    Scott,

    Its my guess that most internet users are very unaware of the power of data mining and collection. And once they begin to suspect that information ls being gathered what can they reasonably do about it?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Wintle View Post
    Scott,

    Its my guess that most internet users are very unaware of the power of data mining and collection. And once they begin to suspect that information ls being gathered what can they reasonably do about it?

    Chuck, it's not the internet that's the issue. It's everything else. From your debit card swipes at the grocery store, Best Buy, Target, to the t.v. you are watching. Yes, they are actually logging the t.v. shows that are watched, building that data profile of you as a customer and using that data (or selling it). I worry far more about the stuff that's non-internet related than I do anything else.

    You don't have to be a geek to be worried about someone gathering up all the data about everything you do and selling it to companies that use that data to manipulate you and your buying decisions, insurance risks, health insurance, etc.

    People (generally older people) freak out over the thought of identity theft and someone getting access to their bank account. For the most part, that's the least of my worries. Get access to it? No problem, I'll get the money back. Might be an inconvenience for a couple of days, but I can rebuild from that pretty easily. However, take all my lifestyle data and sell it to an insurance company and I doubt I can do much about that.
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  10. #10

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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Thien View Post
    Obesity and obesity-related illness/disease has become the last acceptable discrimination. You can say whatever you want, do whatever you want, thin people "hate on" fat people with impunity.
    I disagree with this statement. Having been naturally thin and surrounded by obese people my whole life I deal with just the opposite practically daily. I see overweight people "hate on" thin people with impunity just as much if not more. (This coming from obese people who either have medical issues or are obese from poor eating & lifestyle habits.)

    I have always been lean and muscular. No matter how much weight-lifting I did, I could never get big & bulky. This is the way I have always been and will probably always be. I am not underweight or too thin by any means. Because I don't carry extra weight, I have received scathing insults from complete strangers while walking in stores, eating in a restaurants, playing at the beach, you name it. It didn't matter if I was wearing jeans & a long sleeve sweatshirt or wearing shorts. The insults and negative remarks have always been from obese people. 90% of the time I ignore them, while other times I have fought back hoping to educate them so they stop saying such awful things. I have politely asked the person "How can you say I'm anorexic/bulimic/whatever when you can see I have muscle which is toned & fit?" or "If you really feel I'm "blank" shouldn't you be encouraging me to seek medical help instead of insulting me?" I must admit. There have been a few times where particularly mean people have said (insulting skinny joke here) and I have confronted them and asked them "How would you like it if I said (insulting fat joke here)" ... yet it never seems to get thru to them.

    Back to the topic at hand. Yup. Technology and times are changing. Not much is private now. Data mining is going on everywhere. Last year we needed to buy newborn diapers while dealing with a hoof injury on our 28 year old horse. We are constantly receiving baby-related offers now at the local stores where we bought them. Maybe in another 16-17 years we will receive graduation notes from them?

    I re-read "A Brave New World" and "1984" last year and they were a very interesting read!
    I read recipes the same way I read science fiction. I get to the end and I think, "Well, that’s not going to happen."

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Chance in Iowa View Post
    I disagree with this statement. Having been naturally thin and surrounded by obese people my whole life I deal with just the opposite practically daily. I see overweight people "hate on" thin people with impunity just as much if not more. (This coming from obese people who either have medical issues or are obese from poor eating & lifestyle habits.)

    I have always been lean and muscular. No matter how much weight-lifting I did, I could never get big & bulky. This is the way I have always been and will probably always be. I am not underweight or too thin by any means. Because I don't carry extra weight, I have received scathing insults from complete strangers while walking in stores, eating in a restaurants, playing at the beach, you name it. It didn't matter if I was wearing jeans & a long sleeve sweatshirt or wearing shorts. The insults and negative remarks have always been from obese people. 90% of the time I ignore them, while other times I have fought back hoping to educate them so they stop saying such awful things. I have politely asked the person "How can you say I'm anorexic/bulimic/whatever when you can see I have muscle which is toned & fit?" or "If you really feel I'm "blank" shouldn't you be encouraging me to seek medical help instead of insulting me?" I must admit. There have been a few times where particularly mean people have said (insulting skinny joke here) and I have confronted them and asked them "How would you like it if I said (insulting fat joke here)" ... yet it never seems to get thru to them.

    Back to the topic at hand. Yup. Technology and times are changing. Not much is private now. Data mining is going on everywhere. Last year we needed to buy newborn diapers while dealing with a hoof injury on our 28 year old horse. We are constantly receiving baby-related offers now at the local stores where we bought them. Maybe in another 16-17 years we will receive graduation notes from them?

    I re-read "A Brave New World" and "1984" last year and they were a very interesting read!
    Mike, you must live in some sort of opposite universe, where all the TV and move starts are overweight and the general population is thin and frantically eating Doritos trying to look like some fat guy on the TV. Where women page through the latest fashion magazines only wishing they could somehow bulk-up to look like the supermodels they see. Where the Victoria's Secret Angels are all plus-plus-plus sized to the point where you can't even identify the underwear they're modeling.

    Or you're just bragging that you've always been ultra-thin.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Shepherd View Post
    Chuck, it's not the internet that's the issue. It's everything else. From your debit card swipes at the grocery store, Best Buy, Target, to the t.v. you are watching. Yes, they are actually logging the t.v. shows that are watched, building that data profile of you as a customer and using that data (or selling it). I worry far more about the stuff that's non-internet related than I do anything else.
    I fully agree with you that people need to exercise care about what data they allow to be kept by merchants they deal with (whether virtual or brick-and-mortar), but there are a couple observations I'd make for the record.

    First, this isn't new. The digitalization of data has created greater opportunities to correlate material and refine the conclusions people draw from that. But I remember reading an article in the Washington Post 30 years ago about carrier-route-sorted mail and targeted advertising. Basically, even then, knowing the carrier route you were now at plus some tracking that identified the carrier-route locales for your prior residences (which is largely public records), they could build a profile of you that was horribly accurate in terms of marital status, number of kids, age, income and the like. So the fact that there are companies trying to figure out how to market to you better shouldn't be a real surprise, and we should all be careful of the breadcrumbs we leave them.

    Second, there is a great distinction I'd draw between individually identifiable data and data in aggregate. Google bought Nest, which makes a thermostat that is hugely consumer-friendly (think iPhone of thermostats) and interconnected. While I'm guessing any Nest user has the option of blocking Google tracking, I'm also guessing that most people haven't opted out and that their data is being collected and Google is permitted to use the data on a non-individually identifiable basis. If you think about it, it is a pretty powerful source of information, but if I was a Nest user, I'm not sure--as long as no one could extract my data--that would bother me. Nor am I certain it should--there is a lot we can learn about when and how people work, vacation, and how they use energy that could be highly beneficial to society at large.

    Third, the article that is linked doesn't really seem to make clear whether employees are being compelled to wear activity trackers, or whether wearing an activity tracker provides you a discount on your health insurance. Even in the case where you are wearing one--whether under duress or not--the article isn't particularly clear about whether the company is using your biometric data or not. I like activity trackers--having worn one, I can attest that observed behavior changes. Wearing one will cause you to think about upping your step count instead of taking a cab, or upping the stairs climbed count instead of taking the elevator. I can see a company encouraging the use of them purely on that basis, the same way some companies have fitness centers or offer discounts on memberships to gyms.

    I don't like the idea of a world where NSA is reading my emails and my employer, health insurance company, and doctors are all sharing my data and coercing me into behavioral changes. But I'm more OK with the world where my employer offers me discounted health insurance for not smoking. The article doesn't seem to get to the core of these distinctions.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Thien View Post
    Mike, you must live in some sort of opposite universe, where all the TV and move starts are overweight and the general population is thin and frantically eating Doritos trying to look like some fat guy on the TV. Where women page through the latest fashion magazines only wishing they could somehow bulk-up to look like the supermodels they see. Where the Victoria's Secret Angels are all plus-plus-plus sized to the point where you can't even identify the underwear they're modeling.


    Or you're just bragging that you've always been ultra-thin.
    I didn't say I was ultra-thin nor do I live in a fantasy world. I don't "brag" about my weight & build, but since I have not personally met anyone on this forum, I described my size to indicate I have personal experience with being "hated on" by overweight people. I am not underweight, nor overweight. I am simply saying that it's not only "thin" people who say and do mean things.
    I read recipes the same way I read science fiction. I get to the end and I think, "Well, that’s not going to happen."

  15. #15
    Eric, I know they have been trying to collect marketing data for decades. However, it was all anonymous and really vague because everything was paid for with cash or a check and they weren't collecting data from checks and giving that information to the stores you shopped from. Now, with electronic money, everything you touch or do becomes traceable back to you. Not anonymous, it's to you. Target knows I bought a bag of M&M's and that data is collected and stored. My guess is that it's not Target that's doing the data collection, it's a third party company, so that third party company that I didn't give access to (knowingly), now sells that information to the highest bidder. Now someone that I had no transactions with knows my buying habits. I think that's pretty disgusting as far as a privacy issue. So much so that I've gone back to using cash in a lot of places.

    I'm fine if you want to track me, as long as you give me the option to opt out of anything you do, or at the very least, inform me that you'll be selling all data collected from my transaction to the highest bidder. You have to label my M&M's with all the nutrition information, so at the least, make me aware that I'm being tracked.

    It all seems harmless when you're talking about buying M&M's, but start buying various health related products, then that information goes to the health and life insurance companies and you can't understand why your premiums went through the roof one day. Not to mention the fact that you could be buying them for a parent or a friend who can't get out on their own.
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