How much to pay for a woodie jointer, and what to look for?

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

There's what looks like, at first blush, a nice wooden jointer at a local antique shop. I passed, because I didn't have any cash in my pocket, and was killing time before an appointment, and didn't have the time to give it a better look. I guess I figure, for 25 bucks, if it's still there next time I'm in that part of town, I'll bite. I do remember thinking it was quite a find, in that the mouth was largish but not gaping, and the wedge was in excellent condition (still nice crisp chamfers, not bludgeoned to heck, and with the fine points quite intact.) Double iron with the business end in seemingly good shape. A bit larger than I'd like, but the handle was really well shaped and tight, which seemed like it spoke to something of the work that went into the tool. The body itself was decent, but didn't have the crisp eyes and chamfers and details of a perfect plane, but didn't seem like the rough-shod work of say an Auburn prison tool, either. Interesting detail were two iron strike buttons, (on on the toe, one on the top of the handle) like chamfered diamonds. The only big issue I was was a rather tight crack on the sole along-side the mouth - the body had shrunk enough in width that the blade would get stuck and not protrude, and I assume this led to the crack. Is this a deal breaker? There were also a couple of checks in the body along the top, but nothing large or that overly concerned me.

Honestly, for the price, I'm figuring it's worth it for an iron and cap iron (if they're decent) a really nicely shaped handle, and big chunk of seasoned beech. Honestly, the only downside is the thing seems to be a little bigger than I'd like, but at the size, I almost think you could three coffin smoothers out of it if you wanted to junk it. I think it's too nice for that - but it occurs to me, I have absolutely no knowledge about wooden bench planes, just the idea that I'd like to try one.

Anyway, I guess I'll probably bite on this one if it's still around this weekend, but I was wondering if there's any danger danger signs I should be looking out for before plunking the cash down? If I get it, I'll certainly post some pictures here . . .

[george wilson]

I have never seen a striking knob on the top of a handle. And,that would be a very poor place to put one. It could crack or dislodge the handle. Are you sure it wasn't a decoration,inspired by some attempt(however misguided ) to match the real striking knob ?

IU would not worry about the crack alongside the throat. You could carve some decent eyes into it,and carefully stain them to match the rest of the old wood,using tea. I use KMNO4(Potassium permanganate) myself. But,it might be hard to get as it can be used in rockets and explosives. It is also poisonous,though it used to be used by the Boy Scouts as a poison ivy cure. Oh,well,those good old days. Send your kids out in the woods where the scoutmaster can poison them!!!

BTW,NEVER put KMNO4 into turpentine!! It will blow up.

[don wilwol]

I do a lot of flea markets, antique shops throughout the north east. I don't typically look for the woodies, but the ones that have followed me home are scattered throughout the house. If you are just looking for a user, just make sure the wood is in good shape and the cutter isn't pitted. $25 is a fair price if its in good shape.

If you're looking for resale value, a makers mark is very helpful. I don't believe I've ever paid over $10 for one, but they find me, I don't look for them, so if you want to put in the leg work, they are out there cheaper, but for a $15 savings, its not worth it if you don't enjoy the hunt.

[Zach Dillinger]

If the cheeks aren't cracked (which usually mean your iron will be frozen in place due to shrinkage), the iron is free of pitting and anything other than minor rust, and the sole isn't completely bananed, I'd buy it for $25. Especially if it was a British maker. If it was an American maker, it would have to be essentially perfect condition for me to make a move on it unless it was nearly free.

Post some pics!

[David Weaver]

I've paid as little as $20 for a good double iron jointer that just needs some TLC and will never be a cosmetic 10, to $25 for a nearly unused JT brown jointer, and then $180 shipped for two nice-looking jointers from MJD (in a fit of wanting a clean jointer with a good long double iron and at least 28 inches long).

The MJD jointers turned out to not be a very good deal after they showed up - let's just say they had their pretty sides pictured and the mouths came looking like something you'd have wanted to see before you paid the money for the planes.

My personal thought is that if you got a very clean near unused vintage double iron jointer of a good make (not ohio tool or some common coarsely made plane, but an early american jointer or an 1800s english made jointer), $100 is by no means a problem at all. For a very nice jointer that's got a little wear but still has a tight mouth and nothing like chips off of it or big areas of rash, and has a good fairly rust free iron, I'd target $50-$75.

Anything where the double iron is good and long but the whole plane needs a little TLC AND the handle is not broken more than a chipped or broken off horn (no structurual breakage to the handle), then I pay what I think is fair price for a double iron set, which is about $25. You'll never get rid of that stuff - I've got half a dozen planes.

If anything at an abutment is broken, or of the wedge is a total loss, the iron is overly pitted, a cheek is broken out a mouth is blown out to huge proportions or poorly plugged, or a the handle has structurally broken or broken and been repaired - and I'm out, the only exception being if the iron and cap iron are fantastic and then you buy the setup and cut the plane body up to get a few turning blanks of beech and call it good.

At any rate, it's a lot like saws. You can get 75-90% of perfect for relatively inexpensive. If you find something in perfect shape for a deal, then you're really doing well - otherwise, for a great condition aesthetically pleasing tool, you usually have to pay pretty hefty...

.....or at least hefty until you compare what it would cost you to make a long jointer - which is about $100 if you buy a very good blank and a very clean near NOS iron and cap iron set.

[Mike Holbrook]

Interesting post. I have searched many auctions for planes and found many vintage wood planes for sale. Unfortunately almost all of them seem to have sizable cracks. I often wonder if this is a characteristic of the beech wood that I believe these planes were frequently made from? Maybe the cracks are just a result of age and loss of moisture in the wood? I have planes made from purple heart and cocobollo none of which have any cracks at this point in their younger history. I just soaked WATCO into one of my purple heart plane bodies. The plane body was made a couple years ago and although I was not seeing any movement in the wood I wanted to try something to reduce the risk of cracking/aging. I know some avoid putting anything on their wood planes. I was trying to follow Steve Knights lead as I believe he typically treated the wood in his planes. I choose my jack plane to treat as I felt it might still be functional if the wood moved or cracked from the WATCO. Now a couple weeks later the plane seems to be fine. I thought the tote would not fit due to changes in the wood, but it seems to fit about the same which surprised me a little.

This cracking thing is what worries me most about wood planes. It has occurred to me that cracking might not be as large an issue as I have feared? Maybe someone with experience could relate their experience with planes bought with cracks or with planes which were shop made that cracked later? Any wisdom on how one might treat/prevent old or shop made planes to prevent this sort of problem would be helpful as well.

[Zach Dillinger]

Interesting post. I have searched many auctions for planes and found many vintage wood planes for sale. Unfortunately almost all of them seem to have sizable cracks. I often wonder if this is a characteristic of the beech wood that I believe these planes were frequently made from? Maybe the cracks are just a result of age and loss of moisture in the wood? I have planes made from purple heart and cocobollo none of which have any cracks at this point in their younger history. I just soaked WATCO into one of my purple heart plane bodies. The plane body was made a couple years ago and although I was not seeing any movement in the wood I wanted to try something to reduce the risk of cracking/aging. I know some avoid putting anything on their wood planes. I was trying to follow Steve Knights lead as I believe he typically treated the wood in his planes. I choose my jack plane to treat as I felt it might still be functional if the wood moved or cracked from the WATCO. Now a couple weeks later the plane seems to be fine. I thought the tote would not fit due to changes in the wood, but it seems to fit about the same which surprised me a little.

This cracking thing is what worries me most about wood planes. It has occurred to me that cracking might not be as large an issue as I have feared? Maybe someone with experience could relate their experience with planes bought with cracks or with planes which were shop made that cracked later? Any wisdom on how one might treat/prevent old or shop made planes to prevent this sort of problem would be helpful as well.

Mike, it all depends on the location of the cracks. Any cracks near the cheeks or wedge abutments are usually fatal. Cracks in the sole make no difference but they should get you a better price. I have a Reed Utica jointer plane with cracks that extend into the mouth and it works very well. American planes, especially later ones, seem to have more cracks than British planes, which is why I specified British in my above post.

As for cracking shop made planes, my bevel down miter plane (made in beech) has some shrinkage cracks in the toe. It works just as well as the day I made it. No worries.

[David Weaver]

If the cracks are not in critical areas (e.g, you see a long crack that starts at the front side of a plane, half way up the height of the plane and goes about halfway to the mortise or a little more - it makes no difference), they should help you get the plane inexpensively but not affect function. Cracks in the handle, around the mouth where they work from mouth to cheek, anywhere in the cheeks, abutments, etc, those are bad. Most of the rest of them are superficial - even if they are surface cracks that go from the back of the bed to the handle and then behind the handle to the back of the plane.

I have a feeling that in todays day and age, most planes wouldn't crack as badly, at least in our lifetimes, but those planes have probably been places that are damp for a few weeks and then places that aren't, and somewhere along the way they got too dry too quickly. If you get old enough rosewood, bois de rose, ebony, etc, it'll have cracks and bug holes just like everything else.

It is *tough* to find an excellent shape jointer of 28 inches that has a good wedge, great wood and no cosmetic issues of any type. Often if you find something like that, it's an undesirable more modern plane, anyway. You nearly have to luck out and find a plane that was bought, and the owner died or quit and the families through the years kept the planes in a storage closet or something in a house. I have only gotten that lucky one time.

Of the two planes that I paid $90 a pop for from MJD, both are 28 inches and have decent irons, but one was made with a gigantic (not just large) mouth, and the other was made finely with a small mouth but someone didn't like it and rasped it wide open. That's the risk you take getting tools from MJD, and more than one person has warned me about that. I've gotten enough stuff from them that overall, it's about evened out.

I like to get any plane that's got a long superficial crack for about $20 or so. Superficial or not, it really limits the actual value of the plane to see a large crack.

[Mike Holbrook]

What is MJD?

Thanks for explaining cracks guys. Still cracks, especially cracks on the bottom of a plane, worry me. It just seems like wood/etc. from using the plane will eventually get lodged in the crack and make matters worse.

Anyone care to comment on methods for preventing cracks? I am particularly interested in finishes for plane bodies: bad, good or indifferent.... It would seem that planes with thinner bodies, less wood to hold moisture, might be a little less prone to the moisture changes that would cause cracks. Most of the old planes I see with cracks are the big thick heavy ones. Japanese Kanna, on the other hand, seem to last for long periods without suffering these problems. The planes I made are somewhere in the middle, thickness wise, made from 8/4 wood, less than 1 3/4" after finishing/flattening...

[David Weaver]

It's a once in a while tool auction that lists a *lot* of tools, but you get one picture of each, and you have to bid against people who are actually at the auction. Often, if you get something reasonable, you find out why when you get it. Sometimes you get a deal, and sometimes you pay what seems like market price for what turns out to be a disappointment. I guess they have about 4 a year. They do a lot of auctions, as does browns auction, and both have a lot of planes, etc, especially old woodies of various flavors, but you're not seeing enough of them in the pictures to be able to feel like you're getting something without taking a fairly large risk.

[Georg Zudoff]

From 5 to 8 USD for former USSR fabric made or homemade jointer. At the flea market. I've bought them 3. But this price valid only for Ukraine

[David Weaver]

What is MJD?

Thanks for explaining cracks guys. Still cracks, especially cracks on the bottom of a plane, worry me. It just seems like wood/etc. from using the plane will eventually get lodged in the crack and make matters worse.

Anyone care to comment on methods for preventing cracks? I am particularly interested in finishes for plane bodies: bad, good or indifferent.... It would seem that planes with thinner bodies, less wood to hold moisture, might be a little less prone to the moisture changes that would cause cracks. Most of the old planes I see with cracks are the big thick heavy ones. Japanese Kanna, on the other hand, seem to last for long periods without suffering these problems. The planes I made are somewhere in the middle, thickness wise, made from 8/4 wood, less than 1 3/4" after finishing/flattening...

You just won't find old enough kanna to find the planes with cracks. I have an old plane (japanese) that has a big crack, but I'd bet on the order of age, it's probably 70 years old, whereas western planes 200 years old are not especially rare.

The equivalent age to most vintage japanese stuff is more like 1950s, and would look more like the light colored non-stained marples planes, things so modern most of us pass them by.

[Steve Voigt]

Interesting post. I have searched many auctions for planes and found many vintage wood planes for sale. Unfortunately almost all of them seem to have sizable cracks. I often wonder if this is a characteristic of the beech wood that I believe these planes were frequently made from? Maybe the cracks are just a result of age and loss of moisture in the wood? … Any wisdom on how one might treat/prevent old or shop made planes to prevent this sort of problem would be helpful as well.

Beech, like oak, does tend to check more than some other species, but under normal use it shouldn't be a problem. There are a couple things to remember with old woodies.
First, any plane you find on ebay or in an antique shop is likely 120-170 years old. Second, it may have been sitting in a barn or even outside for much of that time, exposed to much more drastic moisture exchange than it would be in your shop.. Third, it probably hasn't been used for decades, maybe even a century. If the iron in one of your planes started getting tight, you would fix it! But if no one is using it, the iron can get so tight that it cracks the plane.
Finally, many of the American-made planes from the late 19th c. are of questionable quality, and the wood may not have been properly dried in the first place. The American wood plane industry was in a death spiral due to competition from metal planes and machines. The industry held up better in Britain, which might explain why Zach and Dave have seen fewer problems with British planes.
My point is, the cracks in old woodies are the result of brutal conditions that you would never expose your planes to. If a wood plane is made from properly seasoned stock, taken care of, and used, I have no doubt it could last for a century or more without developing any cracks, or at worst some shallow and superficial cracks.
Larry Williams has been in business for a long time now and made thousands of planes. I wonder how many of his planes have come back to him with cracks; my guess would be close to zero.

[Steve Voigt]

What is MJD?



Anyone care to comment on methods for preventing cracks?

If the plane has no finish on it, apply two coats of Watco, Antique Oil, or some similar penetrating oil finish, and a coat of wax if you want. Re-apply once every few years, and you should be good.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I'm terrible with the terminology today, and too lazy to find my copy of Whedan - When you guys say "cheeks", where are we referring to? We're talking the top of the plane, correct? This plane, the iron is only tight at the bottom, as it protrudes from the sole of the plane, and it's at the sole where this crack forms. It's not terrible, and I can just barely tell that it's moving when I apply hand pressure to it. It's not overly open or large or anything.

I'm thinking I might swing by and see if it's still available on Friday. I figure with a nice long bit it'll make a great lamp. (I'm kidding.)