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Thread: Buying houses... Brian was right :-/

  1. #1
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    Buying houses... Brian was right :-/

    Elfert was right, what a royal pain this has been. Although SWMBO and I have discussed moving to a new place in passing many times over the last few years, I suddenly got a burr up my butt a couple of weeks ago. So we looked on Zillow, did a little market research, and took a long drive to see what was out there. Scary!

    Frankly, we need more space... we're at something like 2,200 square feet right now (75% of which is finished), give or take, in an early-70's house. I want a bigger workshop, we'd both like a separate home office, and the munchkin could use a bigger bedroom. The munchkin is going into middle school this year, and while the local elementary and high schools are highly rated, the middle school is, well, in the middle. So, off to looking we went.

    I expected to find something with more space and in a nice neighborhood for the $500-600k range. LOL! No. Okay, what about bumping it up a bit to $600-700k. Not really. The houses are nicer (but used... generally 15-20 years old, or more), but the square footage is about the same. After all is said and done, we're looking at houses starting in the $850k range (BASE!), which essentially jumps to a cool $1mil when you add in the large lot fees (1 acre) and "upgrades" (i.e., stuff you should get anyway at those prices). These things are huge, with 4,500+ square feet of finished space, huge unfinished basements, etc.

    Honestly, I'm not a happy camper. What bugs me the most? There's little to no middle ground. You either get something that's a bit newer for twice the price, but nothing else, or you swing the pendulum the other way and get way more than you want for three times the price. Honestly, I would drop 1,000 square feet in a heartbeat for $200k off of the price. I think I'd drop 2,000 square feet for $400k off if it still came with the basement! I don't need that much "living" space.

    Sadly, I have a feeling the $1mil direction is where we will end up heading... not sure how I feel about this
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  2. #2
    Dan, head south This is $459,000 in this area.....notice it's on 5 acres....

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    Dan,
    I suppose you're limited to "where" you want to be more than what you want to spend? I like looking at prices and spec's on acreages and have found them to be quite affordable here in the midwest. My place is just under 14 acres, 36 x 60 shop, older home in good shape $145K. I've seen larger acreages, newer homes ready to move into in Missouri much cheaper! +1 on what Scott said.

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Shepherd View Post
    Dan, head south This is $459,000 in this area.....notice it's on 5 acres....
    And thank you, once again, Steve, for tightening my spiral into depression.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Volden View Post
    Dan,
    I suppose you're limited to "where" you want to be more than what you want to spend? I like looking at prices and spec's on acreages and have found them to be quite affordable here in the midwest. My place is just under 14 acres, 36 x 60 shop, older home in good shape $145K. I've seen larger acreages, newer homes ready to move into in Missouri much cheaper! +1 on what Scott said.
    Unfortunately, I'm very limited. With the type of work I do, I have to remain within a certain radius of the groups that do such work, which basically means anything farther than 15-20 miles is unreasonable. To top that off, we have to stay semi-local because of the munchkin (dual custody being what it is, and all of that). We found a place for a bit over $600k... built in '87, on 2 acres, 4B/4B, 5k square feet... but it appears to be an anomoly for the area, which is concerning. I believe SWMBO is working on getting us a tour, but we have so many other things going on right now, I'm not sure if it will happen before we have to make other decisions (and I'm not overly impressed with how they used the space they have, nor the 80's style interior).
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  5. #5
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    It must be nice to be able to afford an $850,000 house! I could probably get a mortgage for a $400,000 house, but I couldn't really afford it without cutting all my other spending to the bare bones. If I was willing to spend $400,000, or even $350,000 I could probably get the house of my dreams. Existing houses in the $300,000 to $400,000 price range in the area I am looking at tend to be fairly new, but also two story with way more space than I need. If I wanted to spend that much I would have a new rambler built on a nice lot.

    I am thinking I might have a new house built and give up on the other house that needs major work. The bad thing about the lot I would build on is it is too wet for a full basement. The builder can do a split level, but I hate those. I'm going to talk to the builder about building a rambler on a slab. The thing I don't like about that is running duct work through the attic. It also reduces future resale value as everyone expects a basement in Minnesota.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Hintz View Post
    And thank you, once again, Steve, for tightening my spiral into depression.
    My pleasure Dan! That's what I'm here for
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  7. #7
    I know the middle school was a concern and I'd imagine there are other factors but heck, for those numbers you'd think a heck of a remodel/addition would be on the table. Wouldnt solve the shop but...

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Elfert View Post
    It must be nice to be able to afford an $850,000 house! I could probably get a mortgage for a $400,000 house, but I couldn't really afford it without cutting all my other spending to the bare bones. If I was willing to spend $400,000, or even $350,000 I could probably get the house of my dreams. Existing houses in the $300,000 to $400,000 price range in the area I am looking at tend to be fairly new, but also two story with way more space than I need. If I wanted to spend that much I would have a new rambler built on a nice lot.

    I am thinking I might have a new house built and give up on the other house that needs major work. The bad thing about the lot I would build on is it is too wet for a full basement. The builder can do a split level, but I hate those. I'm going to talk to the builder about building a rambler on a slab. The thing I don't like about that is running duct work through the attic. It also reduces future resale value as everyone expects a basement in Minnesota.
    If you have a place to stay right now, building is a great way to go, as long as you're willing to act as your own GC and wait a year or more for it to be finished.

    I never want to play on the edge, living paycheck to paycheck, as I know many do to get into those big houses and keep up with the Joneses. I've never been a "keeping up with the Joneses" kind of guy. If it was just the one mortgage, I'd be okay with things... but until we get out of the current house, into the new one, and sell the current house, that's two mortgages to deal with. We wouldn't be living paycheck to paycheck, but I would voluntarily tighten the family belt until that second monkey was off of our backs. I also need to do some quick fixer-upper things to the current house so I would feel comfortable putting it on the market (not to mention getting our Zillow listing updated with current info... for example, the square footage does not include any of the basement, so I have been finishing parts of it to include in the "livable space" number). Seeing as how the new house hasn't been built yet, I have a little time.

    Trust me, I'm not happy having such a limited selection of homes to work with, but around here they're snapped up as fast as they can build them.
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  9. #9
    What are the property taxes on an $800K house? Around here, they'd be $1500 a month or so, and they're only going to go up as the local tax base ages and the local school district workers age and have higher (active and retirement) benefit and compensation costs.

    Having a kid in the "top school" is a bit of an overrated thing, in my opinion. Above average with good AP options in high school is plenty, the rest is up to the parents (in building good habits) and genetics. People around here spend all of their money to get their kids into more or less three different districts, and then get taxed to death, and a lot of them have kids that are average or only slightly above average, and they need better parents more than they need better schools (in terms of focusing the kids academically).

    I'd personally rather leave the difference in cost to my kids when I croak (you're talking about numbers like $500k difference, and whatever that would accumulate to), but the issue of needing office space for two different people *and* a shop does put a pinch on 2200 square feet. Presume the zoning and permitting is pretty tough in columbia, and would make it difficult to figure out how to turn your SF into something like 3k sf and everything finished for another $150k? I grew up not far from there and went to western PA strictly because the influx of gov. contract money into the suburbs of that area is going to make it so that the average person is going to stretch to afford their houses.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Hintz View Post
    If you have a place to stay right now, building is a great way to go, as long as you're willing to act as your own GC and wait a year or more for it to be finished.
    I have a place to stay as my house was sold in May. I would be using a builder as banks won't give a construction loan to be your own GC generally unless you make your living as a GC. There was a company that helped you be your own GC and saved you money, but they went under about 2009 due to lack of business. The builder has told me 10 weeks to build which I doubt although I saw a house get built in 10 to 12 weeks just recently.

  11. #11
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    Funny, the drastic range in real estate prices over the country. Here is a right nice 4,447 square foot lake home near me in Northern MN on 1.6 acres listed for $519.900. http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/30...15006657_zpid/

  12. #12
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    I don't envy anyone in the OP's age bracket in tight housing markets.

    There will be a glut of nice houses, in about ten years when your kid
    is already out of school and people my age find the maintenance too much.

    We were in a similar position, two years ago on discovering that the local middle school
    was contaminated by PCBs and classroom sizes were edging toward 30 kids in each.

    I looked within a 20 min driving distance to SWMBO office, and found it would cost
    us $275,000 (over the anticipated life of the mortgage) to move and send our kids to
    a nominally better public school district.

    Our solution was to bite the bullet and pony up serious money for parochial schools.

    Getting a bigger room for a growing kid sounds good, but in my house, that just means more piles of kid crap.
    I'm finding my shop space adequate, as I reduce the number of tools used down to a more basic kit.

    Have you considered a modular building on your property, to make shop space?

    Good luck in your search, there's probably a very good compromise in the mix.

    When I bought my first house, I drove around until I found a promising neighborhood
    and asked if anyone was considering selling.

    I found it during the annual neighborhood yard sale.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Shepherd View Post
    Dan, head south This is $459,000 in this area.....notice it's on 5 acres....
    Is that a "normal" price, or is there something seriously wrong with it? I thought our prices were the cheapest in the country, but that looks very reasonable if it is reasonably updated.
    What would taxes be?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Wade Lippman View Post
    Is that a "normal" price, or is there something seriously wrong with it? I thought our prices were the cheapest in the country, but that looks very reasonable if it is reasonably updated.
    What would taxes be?
    That's in a rural county. I'd say that's a fairly normal price for that size house. Most houses regular people live in are in the $150K-220K range.

    It's showing the taxes for it at $3,600 per year for 2013.

    There are many others like it on Zillow. Go to zillow.com and enter "Hanover, VA".

    I live in a surrounding county. I couldn't afford to live in the mother-in-law suite in that size house
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Matthews View Post
    There will be a glut of nice houses, in about ten years when your kid
    is already out of school and people my age find the maintenance too much.
    I have the same thought that the housing market will crash once baby boomers all start selling their houses and downsizing. My parents are in their late 60s and plan to sell in the next four or five years. I tell them to sell now because my dad wants to build a model railroad layout. Stupid to build a layout and tear it down a few years later. He also wants to remove parts of walls that would have to be replaced when they sell.

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