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Thread: Is the table saw (non sawstop) the most dangerous tool in the shop?

  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Barry View Post
    I can not believe any one would actually do this, besides if that's the way they are doing it having the guard tied back wont make any difference.
    You're right. I just wanted to point out that workers do that (tie back the guard) as well as cut across their leg. I wasn't trying to say that the two were required simultaneously to cut your thigh.

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Barry View Post
    I can not believe any one would actually do this, besides if that's the way they are doing it having the guard tied back wont make any difference.
    People actually do it Pat. They wire the trigger back on framing nailers to get them to shoot as soon as the safety on the tip of the tool is depressed also. I had a carpenter shoot his foot to the floor framing the walls of my basement with a framing nailer set up like that. Crazy.

    PHM

  3. #93
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    Isn't the original question a little like asking whether the automobile is the most dangerous vehicle on the roads?

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Henderson View Post
    THEY STILL DO THAT!!! I have a friend who's an emergency room nurse (and a woodworker). She gets guys in the ER who have cut across their thigh. She always asks them what they were doing and whether they had tied the guard back. Most of them were cutting across their leg and they had the guard tied back.

    Mike
    Occasionally when I have a fallen tree branch, I will hold the branch in one hand if it's small enough, and cut with the chainsaw in the other hand one handed to keep the branch from pinching it. One time the chainsaw came down on my thigh while spinning, and obviously it's a bit hard to pull up one handed and also let go of the trigger. I cut a hole all the way through my jeans, but somehow very luckily never put a stratch on my leg. I still wear the jeans, and people think I'm sporting some fadish style, then I say I cut that with a chainsaw. I usually get a good look on peoples face

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art Mann View Post
    Isn't the original question a little like asking whether the automobile is the most dangerous vehicle on the roads?
    I consider it to be similar to asking if a corvette is the most dangerous car on the road. My real intention though was whats the most dangerous tool in the shop, and like most people pointed out, it depends on the operator. All in all, if you don't follow proper procedures, your chances of getting hurt increase no matter what you use

  6. #96
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    The most dangerous as well as the most beneficial tool in any shop is the BRAIN.

    Lose focus for an instant and you could be in trouble. I've never had an accident with a table saw, but I've sliced my hand open with a razor knife while cutting veneer. It's easier, in my opinion, to stay focused on a power tool, especially the bigger ones. On the other hand, being a bit too casual with repeated operations such as cutting veneer has been my downfall. But, I still have all 20 (10 fingers and 10 toes)!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Bill Arnold
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  7. #97
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    IMHO - lathe wins hands down - its a proven killer

    The lathe is the only tool where I regularly hear of someone getting killed, on top of injuries ranging from trivial to serious. When I go in my shop and work on my table saw, bandsaw, drill press, planer, jointer, etc., I'm thinking about safety and what I need to do to prevent an injury.

    When I work on my lathe, I think of how I can kill myself if I'm not wearing my face shield, if I don't stand out of the line of fire, if I don't attach the wood properly, set it at a safe speed before turning it on, use the right gouge, etc. And, on the lathe, you can do everything right and still have a piece of wood come apart due to completely hidden structural issues and become a lethal projectile.

    I think the fact it can kill has to rank it as the #1 most dangerous tool in the shop. The fact a safety helmet and full face shield is almost mandatory to turn anything bigger than a pepper mill says plenty by itself.
    Scott Haddix

    "If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?" - Author Unknown

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Haddix View Post
    The lathe is the only tool where I regularly hear of someone getting killed, on top of injuries ranging from trivial to serious. When I go in my shop and work on my table saw, bandsaw, drill press, planer, jointer, etc., I'm thinking about safety and what I need to do to prevent an injury.

    I think the fact it can kill has to rank it as the #1 most dangerous tool in the shop. The fact a safety helmet and full face shield is almost mandatory to turn anything bigger than a pepper mill says plenty by itself.
    I don't turn, but I agree that the one that kills is at or near the top of the list. And the well known lady turner that was killed was wearing a helmet/face shield. Another one I hear about is a framing nailer and all of the guys that nail themselves in places that could be lethal. One right through the heart where he survived. More construction related than workshop though.
    NOW you tell me...

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Haddix View Post
    The lathe is the only tool where I regularly hear of someone getting killed, on top of injuries ranging from trivial to serious. When I go in my shop and work on my table saw, bandsaw, drill press, planer, jointer, etc., I'm thinking about safety and what I need to do to prevent an injury.

    When I work on my lathe, I think of how I can kill myself if I'm not wearing my face shield, if I don't stand out of the line of fire, if I don't attach the wood properly, set it at a safe speed before turning it on, use the right gouge, etc. And, on the lathe, you can do everything right and still have a piece of wood come apart due to completely hidden structural issues and become a lethal projectile.

    I think the fact it can kill has to rank it as the #1 most dangerous tool in the shop. The fact a safety helmet and full face shield is almost mandatory to turn anything bigger than a pepper mill says plenty by itself.
    I have heard of a lot of lathe deaths, but have never heard of one from an exploding piece, and that wasn't even brought to when I was trained to use one. Not saying it can't happen, but most cases I heard are from people with hair hanging down. Lathes are also used in pottery which I assume has a bit more ladies so that can add to some danger (because of more common long hair). When I use a lathe, I never take it over 20% of the max speed, even when sanding, and that's the way I was trained. I guess exploding pieces are more associated with high speeds?

  10. #100
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    Blinded by hand tool

    Yep, Louis Braille was ultimately blinded by a slipped hand/scratch awl that flipped up, stabbed him in one eye, an infection ensued that blinded that eye and then spread to his other eye, which also completely lost sight. This was all before he was 12-years old too. I have had multiple stitches, multiple times in my fingers from kitchen knives -- I definitely consider them to be tools.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold Burrell View Post

    IMHO, I'd say that the most dangerous tool is the SS.

    I am actually quite fearful of the current trend of technological safety features. anything that might get us to let down our guard (even for a moment) in the shop is dangerous. The moment that we think that ANY tool in our shop is "safe" is the moment we get hurt.
    I agree. I think the SS feature works and is an excellent thing to have. I'm sure other equipment will one day have similar safety features. But safety features like this can make the user complacent. "I don't have to worry, the saw is going to prevent me from getting hurt." No, the saw is only going to not let the blade cut anything off assuming the feature works correctly. Nothing more. All the other risks inherent in a TS are still there. Kickback in particular.

    The kind of safety device SS has should be thought of as a last resort. Not a panacea. Nothing takes the place of training (however one gets it) and a careful knowledgeable use of the machine. Whichever machine it is. They're all dangerous. They're all designed to cut. They don't care of they're cutting the intended material or someone's flesh. It's all just "stuff" to them.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prashun Patel View Post
    Bad things happen when I have to exert any kind of pressure into the cutter. It's a sign that something can bind, kick, roll, or shatter.
    It's also a sign of a dull cutting edge. Dull cutters are more dangerous than sharp ones for that very reason.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Hillmann View Post
    My stepdad had a planer kick back at him once when doing beams. It kicked back, hit him hard enough to knock him out for a few seconds. When he came to the planner had tipped towards him with the end of the beam preventing it from tipping all the way over but it was still running and pulling the beam in. Had he not been able to shut it off it would have ended up on top of him pinning him down once the beam had run all the way through. Of course this was a large planner, a small lunch box planner won't be able to produce those kinds of forces.
    I had a lunchbox kickback once. Since I'm always standing to the side of it all that happened was that the relatively short bit of wood was thrown forcefully against the concrete block wall 8 or so feet away. where it shattered. Hasn't happened since. But I know it *can* happen.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Yadfar View Post
    I guess best option is to tie it up in a messy bun, although it would look pretty gay on guys
    I'd rather look "gay" than have a machine scalp me.

  15. #105
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    OK, here goes... on October 19th, 1971 at 8:15 AM, I was working as a ships jointer in a RI shipyard. Portable equipment was on an open air deck (under an extended overhead cover) of a ship recently placed in water. The TS had open sides with a 14" carbide blade barely protruding above table top (too large for the throat opening w/a 7/32" kerf... thick carbide in those days, so most of it sat below table). Was cutting 4X8 sheets of rock asbestos w/plastic laminate on one side (used for bulkheads & overheads, & not yet identified as bad for your health!). When cutting asbestos, dust expands expodentially causing large "flakes" above/around the TS that both inhibits visability & causes a VERY slippery surface on the morning dew-soaked, & yet unpainted steel deck)! I was holding the outfeed end while my partner fed. Inching backward, the asbestos "slush" caused my feet to slide out from under me. My left foot came into contact with the bottom of the blade and it "threw" my foot upward, through the finger plate, & wedged itself there while I yelled and the blade spun effortlessly clear through the middle of it.

    Things happen. I have my foot, though I can't bend my toes, & all but a little feeling on my sole remains. I also have all 10 fingers - though a few are scared. I have on occassion (and yet would) free-handed cuts on the TS for reasons already mentioned, but I do not advocate it and in fact, would discourage it, that is, unless there was good reason and I was at the helm - one reason is cutting crowns off 4/4 or greater, warped, rough lumber. (Todays sliding TS's edge such boards safely and more efficiently, however, but if you don't own one, well...)

    I have seen fingers cut off, a 2x4 "kicked back" through a guy's belly (poked right out his back - it's end was jaggered, not squared), and many, many other less dramatic accidents take place on the TS. Yet, I have free-handed both hardwood boards & sheet stock - though not in cab shops where I've worked - in my own shop & under conditions I control. As mentioned in an earlier post, motor sound, feed pressure change, wood movement, etc., all tell the experienced operator what the wood is doing. Observing these signs tells the experienced operator how to compensate to the TS's reaction to the operation.

    If you have to ask the question, you have no business free-handing on the TS, and from what I've seen and experienced, the TS is the main perpetrator of equipment-related accidents in the wood shop.
    Last edited by Bob Carreiro; 08-09-2014 at 11:59 PM.

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