New project: a Murphy bed

[maurice biddles]

Good afternoon - It has been ages since I've posted and equally long since I've done anything with wood other than 2 x materials. My wife has decided that she'd like a Murphy bed in what will become our guest room/office. We've already purchased hardware and plans from Create-A-Bed.com and found a picture of what we'd like the finished project to resemble. The CAB plans are pretty straighforward but where I foresee issues, and could use assistance, is melding the CAB plan to this:

murphybed_1.jpg

The queen bed face panel consists of two pieces of 3/4" plywood placed side by side for a finished dimensions of 64 x 81 3/4". To match the look in the photo I plan to add a PSA backed veneer (never worked with a veneer before and do not have vacuum press) to the face panel to hide the seam. Based on the panel size, I assume this is how the manufacturer, murphybeds.com, achieved the look.

I have a PC biscuit jointer but since the face panels are attached to the inner bed frame is it necessary to join the two 32 x 81 3/4" halves together? The plans don't specify that these pieces need to be joined and from my initial research, edge jointing plywood doesn't always result in a seamless panel.

For plywood material, I'm thinking about appleply unless it is 1) unavailable locally here in SoCal or 2) prohibitively expensive when paired with the price of veneer. For the veneer, maple, PSA backed 10mil. I'd be willing to try hammer veneering but haven't found many articles/tutorials on using this method with large panels. In total, I'll need to veneer the face panel, headboard, side cabinets, bed cabinet and side cabinet backs, and drawer fronts. Am I setting myself up for failure? If I thought I could get the front panel to look right I'd skip the veneering and get maple veneered plywood. Suggestions?

My garage and tools are minimal consisting of: circular saw, PC biscuit jointer, router, drill, and few other hand tools. I do not have access to table saw

I plan to keep this thread going as I figure things out. Thanks for reading and any suggestions would be most appreciated!!

maurice

[Jesse Busenitz]

Lol can't help you with your question, but it reminds me of the time I helped a friend put one of these together for a customer... I can't remember why but I ended having to fold him up inside the bed so he could screw something

[John TenEyck]

Hi Maurice, I think you might want to rethink your design so it fits with the tools you have. Rather than consider veneering, why not use veneered plywood and make it look like frame and paneled doors, for example. That's what I did with this Murphy bed that I build as part of a larger wall unit.

IMG_0002.JPG

The Murphy Bed is behind what looks like the three doors on the left side. The construction was stiles and rails and 1/4" veneer plywood. I think the plywood was just set in rabbets in the frames and glued and screwed in. It's all hidden by the bed on the other side. The three "doors" are all separate units, joined together with biscuits. They are screwed to the torsion box bed from the inside. Pretty simple construction. The rest of the cabinet was all built with knockdown hardware because it's so large I had to bring the panels into the room as separate pieces. You have to work to pretty tight tolerances for that big bed to fold up into the cabinet without hitting anything, but the construction process itself was pretty simple and I built it without many tools, although I did have a table saw and jointer at the time.

However you go about it, adjust the design to fit the tools you have or can justify buying. Make it your design, not a copy of someone else's.

John

[Pat Barry]

I was also thinking something like John came up with. I like his because it breaks up that big flat surface and adds interest. I could see even making it into a kinda square grid with a faux frame and panel look. The other thing the frame does it covers up the edge grain of the plywood and protects it/

[maurice biddles]

John and Pat - Thanks for the suggestions. I myself like frame and panel but my other half prefers something cleaner. There is another design on the same site where the face panel, at least to me, looks like to large doors. I proposed that option but was overruled.

Regular veneered 3/4" hardwood ply was my sheet good of choice, similar to what I've used to make basic bookcases, but I'm concerned about how well the two edges will join up.

For those that have needed to edge join plywood, how did you do it? Spline down both sides? Dowels? Biscuits? I'd like to think that if I can find good quality ply that is a consistent thickness from piece to piece it would be straight forward but somehow I doubt it.

[maurice biddles]

She's at 26 weeks and if I asked her to be the guinea pig for testing I might find myself permanently enclosed in the bed!

Lol can't help you with your question, but it reminds me of the time I helped a friend put one of these together for a customer... I can't remember why but I ended having to fold him up inside the bed so he could screw something

[John TenEyck]

Maurice, you will never get the edges of two pieces of plywood to align perfectly. If you want to make a big monolithic panel, I suggest you put hardwood edges on the plywood, put small chamfers on them, and then use biscuits every 8 inches or so to align the plywood. If you don't use the chamfers the little misalignment you WILL have will stick out like a sore thumb. Here's a large wall system I'm still working on. The back wall is 4 pieces of plywood, each about 2 feet wide, joined as I described above.

IMG_3209.JPG

John

[maurice biddles]

John - Thanks for the suggestion! Do you happen to have any closeups of your panel pieces before they were joined?

Ok, so lets say we have two pieces of 3/4" ply with a hardwood edge running along the side. Using the method you described, would 1/8" edge banding be sufficient or will I need something thicker to accommodate the camber? I'm thinking thinner wood might blend better after finishing and age similarly.

Since I'll be using a light colored wood like maple, will the panel and the hardwood edge age similarly? The cabinet doors in our kitchen are solid maple but builder used some type plywood/fiberboard with maple veneer on the ends an 15 years later the cooler is drastically different.

[John TenEyck]

Maurice, sorry, no pictures of the door panels on my Murphy bed. I built it over 20 years ago, prior to the digital photography age. Each "door" was nothing more than 2 stiles and 2 rails, with a rabbet of about 1" cut around the inside back edge into which the plywood was glued/screwed. The ends of the rails were cut with a rabbet of the same depth so that they formed a half lap joint with the rails. Pretty basic but solid joinery. The bed box fits over the plywood panel so all of the joinery is hidden after it's all put together.

Keep in mind there is a limit to how much mass the Murphy Bed lift mechanism can handle. That was one reason I choose the frame and panel type door construction approach. They weigh maybe half of what solid 3/4" plywood would of the same size, probably even less.

I used 1/8" solid wood edging on the wall panels in the picture I posted, and I cut a chamfer of about 3/32", so you hardly see any of the edging where it meets the plywood. I think your best bet is to assume the edges will age differently than the plywood and keep them as narrow as possible. However, you can greatly retard the aging if you use a finish with a good UV stabilizer package in it. Some products, like General Finishes Hi Perf. Poly and Enduro Clear Poly, have a dual UV package that retards aging of the finish itself and also the wood it's applied to.

John

[Vince Shriver]

Maurice, you might check with "Cal Panel" in Cerritos for applyply.

[maurice biddles]

Thanks Vince, I'll give them a call. I went out to Reel Lumber yesterday. They offer 3/4" Apply Ply but the maple is pre-finished. They also have 'pro-core' 3/4" maple grade A1 for approx $84, shop grade for approx $54. I'm thinking a mix of the two grades.

For those who have built a Murphy bed based on the C.A.B plans (also sold at Rockler and Lee Valley I think) did you join the two face panels together or just follow the directions and attached the interior frame to the back of the face with screws and glue?

John, the CAB plans specify 3/4" ply for the face panels, 1 1/2" wood for interior frame made , and 1/4" plywood mattress support. Maximum mattress is 80lbs

[maurice biddles]

Alright, so my project has started.

I've had a bit of re-work and made a couple of mistakes. I opted to use some old redwood 1X and 4/4 lyptus material we had in the attic for the internal bed frame. The redwood worked ok but since it was originally used to frame though roof, it was very knotty and had really bad checking in the ends. The piece of lyptus I chose had a significant twist and that I though wouldn't matter after cut into 1 1/2" strips. Wrong! So after assembling the internal frame and not being happy with the result, I purchased some 4/4 poplar and re-cut several of the stringers. Since face panels attach to the frame it really worried me that the any twists might cause an issue later.

THe other issue I've had which I fully expected was being able to cut a straight line with my circular saw and properly square up the panels. I made a guide for my circular saw to rip the full sheets down but the first guide wasn't completely straight. When I realized I made another one which so far seems better. I have something similar for cross-cutting but now I'm thinking it needs to be replaced too. Fortunately a neighbor loaned me an aftermarket guide that clamps to the workpiece and I've used that for both circular saw and router guide

Although I'm using the C.A.B. kit I've changed a couple of measurements so my design matches the pic I posted earlier. No issues so far but we'll see when it comes to assembly time. The last step before finishing and assemble is following John's suggestions on edge banding. I managed to cut a couple of 1/8" strips with my circular saw (5/4 maple) and plan to glue up today. We'll see.

I asked earlier but didn't receive a response from anyone.

For those who have built a Murphy bed based on the C.A.B plans (also sold at Rockler and Lee Valley I think) did you join the two face panels together or just follow the directions and attached the interior frame to the back of the face with screws and glue?

Since the directions don't call for join the panels together I may use the biscuits for alignment but skip glue. Thoughts?

maurice

[Joe Samorodin]

Skip the glue use biscuits and kreg fasteners to cinch up the panels, easy to reverse if there are problems

[maurice biddles]

Joe - Which fasteners are you referencing?

Skip the glue use biscuits and kreg fasteners to cinch up the panels, easy to reverse if there are problems

[Kent A Bathurst]

THe other issue I've had which I fully expected was being able to cut a straight line with my circular saw and properly square up the panels. I made a guide for my circular saw to rip the full sheets down but the first guide wasn't completely straight. When I realized I made another one which so far seems better. I have something similar for cross-cutting but now I'm thinking it needs to be replaced too. Fortunately a neighbor loaned me an aftermarket guide that clamps to the workpiece and I've used that for both circular saw and router guide

Use the guide to get the adjoining edges very close to each other - like 1/16" gap max. Then clamp everything up, and run the cicc saw right up the joint - you are edging both panels at the same time, with the same blade.

If you haven't quite gotten the entire gap taken care of, leave one panel and the guide clamped in place, and do it again.

Router is option, of course - down spiral bit would be my guess [avoid chipout of veneer]. Same deal - edge both pieces with one tool in one pass.