Paul Sellers

[Matthew N. Masail]

I'm not trying to start a war here at all, I personally find his videos refreshing and fun, and I'd much rather watch that than watch another guy use 12 different special jigs and power tools to create a M&T joint. However, I have seen a lot of (sometimes random) negative comments about him lately some as bad as "I dislike anything Sellers", and I've been wondering why that is, is it that people dislike his altitude, do they feel the quality of his work suffers from his "don't get fancy about it" altitude and thus disagree with his preaching, or what? for those of you who do not like him I'd like to here why that is, and I'm asking this question in the most innocent way possible. for those who do like him, I'd like to hear from you too, but I'm specifically wondering what is it that creates such a negative altitude towards him. me? I've learn more from him woodworking wise than all other woodworking videos combined where most of them are "look what I made, but I can only do it with these special jigs and super tuned power-tools that only fit in a big expensive shop"

[Rob Matarazzo]

I like him. I've enjoyed his videos and don't have a bad word to say.

[Charles Bjorgen]

I am a non-paying member of his Woodworking Masterclass group. What that means is that I can view some of his special videos meant for the paying members. Yup, I feel a bit guilty about that but I doubt I could keep up with a regularly scheduled class. I think his approach is terrific and feel I have learned quite a bit about hand tool use from him. I don't subscribe to his convex bevel technique for sharpening but his recent videos on tuning the No.80 cabinet scraper and spoke shaves have brought those tools of mine back to usefulness. He's a good teacher and many of his videos are available free on YouTube. Frankly I don't recall that much negativity directed toward Sellers other than the convex bevel thing. Others simply don't, like me, want to pay for an online woodworking school. The same can probably be said about Rob Cosman's online school.

[Pat Barry]

I enjoy watching his on-line video's and find that he has a wealth of experience and knowledge and does a GREAT job of presenting it. I don't see why anyone would have a problem with him worth the time of day.

[Daniel Rode]

There are lots of people who earn a living teaching and/or writing about woodworking. You'll find fans and detractors of all of them. I'm information omnivorous. I try to gather as many perspectives as I can and then choose what works for me.

As for Paul specifically, I enjoy his style and I've picked up many things I can use. However, I could say the same for at least 20 other people.

[Jim Matthews]

I find his method practical, and easy to apply.

As you suggest, it allows a maker to get on with the business at hand -
building furniture. No need for an extensive tool kit to make simple things.

What is often lost in translation is that Mr. Sellers will use more involved
equipment - as needed. Most of the heavy equipment in the New Legacy school
is dedicated to milling lumber, and that's an important aspect.

Having done all the necessary steps in taking a rough board
through resawing, trying, smoothing and finishing, jointing and
fitting I can honestly say some things are better done with machines.

The point of his instruction is that you can do all the things machines do,
but not so quickly or so easily.

I would say that Mr. Sellers is supremely competent, and that can come across as arrogant.

I found him anything but, in person.

[Brian Holcombe]

One can disagree with some of the particulars of a given method without hating the person. I like Paul Sellers' videos and appreciate his contribution.

He has a way of explaining even the minute considerations of what he is doing, while he is doing it, and that is something invaluable when you are working through the trials and tribulations of a new process.

[David Weaver]

I was one of the people who had an initial negative reaction, but I don't hate everything paul sellers or everything he does. I just think he's selling a gimmick ("lifestyle woodworking") and "don't spend money on tools but spend lots on classes". I just can't get into that kind of stuff, the sort of anti-modernity stuff that is specifically what affords average people the wealth to go spend money on his classes.

I like that he uses stock tools. I just wish he'd dump the gimmick stuff, like making a hag's tooth router out of a 2x4 and a chisel - anyone ever try to actually use a tool like that for reasonable quality work? And the whining about modern society and the implication that we should all hate precisely the things that make our lives a lot easier. It's part of the gimmick. Not saying he doesn't believe in what he's saying, nor am I saying people shouldn't pay to go to his classes or buy videos, etc, that's all a personal decision. He's certainly had blog posts I've agreed with, though I see them by chance because I don't read anyones' blogs.

What does get on my nerves is how it's always about the next guy who comes out (who has already been teaching students for 30 years), and how their new batch of fans sees something a little different (that they would've figured out in the shop, anyway - like not needing lie nielsen planes or expensive chisels to do good work) and all of the sudden whoever just released something new is the "real woodworker" and the rest of the other guys who make their living teaching students are not quite so real - but the group of all of them is much more the same than they are different. The whole time ignoring that the "real" types, the ones who have made a living precisely off of their work and not off of teaching students, are among us, and there are at least three on this board (two in the carving section and one here in hand tools) who do exceptional work and in quantity and of the likes that I've never seen any of the instructors do. There are a select few folks who still make a living or who made a living doing super fine work, and that's it. That's the kind of stuff you, me and everyone else are not going to figure out on our own.

Most of the stuff taught by the internet and class instructors can be learned on your own if you have the desire - and once you've learned it and gotten the sense to be connected enough to what you're doing to solve your own problems, you're done with the beginners stuff, and there's no reason to review the next guru of this or that. But, the real sense of taste, design, proportion, etc - that's where most of us really need help. I recall warren mentioning a while ago that by the time most apprentices had any technical competence, they already had a decent sense of design. We're missing that. And in the sometimes cases where the true masters are telling us stuff *for free* that people would've traveled to learn when the hobby was made of more serious folks only and fewer of them, we have a group of dogpilers who want to assail the messenger because they could care less about the information and only care that someone tells it to them and acts like we're all on the same level.

[Tony Zaffuto]

My wife bought me his DVD series, along with the accompanying book several years ago as a present. Much of what was presented I was already familiar with, HOWEVER there was much new stuff and it was refreshing to watch someone actually the stuff I already knew. The price of the set was around $160 and was very much worth it. There are a few that are put off by him, but as another says there are always supporters and detractors. What I particularly like is that he is not a tool tester promoter, though he does have some opinions about his likes and dislikes.

I read his blog and several nights ago I was looking to see when he may have a class in the states, but it looks as if he has suspended teaching in the U.S. temporarily. If I ever have the chance to take one of his classes I will. I also bet that he is the kind of guy that is not the "my way or the highway".

[Brian Holcombe]

For those, whose lifetime passion is woodworking, traveling, seeing many of it's facets and evolving a personal sense of design will all be part of that.

It it drives my wife crazy.

[Daniel Rode]

I really don't think most folks can learn hand tool woodworking on their own. I can't imagine learning even the basics of how to use a saw chisel and plane without the help of an experienced person, a book or some sort of class. I don't have any family or friends that do this, so I have to seek the knowledge from the Internet, books, magazines or DVDs. The information I get here at SMC is pretty amazing, but I can't expect folks here to teach me every step of the way. Also, the online classes are cheap and convenient, especially compared to live classes. For a few dollars a month I can watch several episodes and fit them in whenever I have time.

Most of the stuff taught by the internet and class instructors can be learned on your own if you have the desire...

[David Weaver]

I just read his blog a little bit since this came up. Most of the stuff I'm pretty indifferent about just because it's in the rearview mirror by a long shot, but I will certainly say that in his post where he praises the virtues of the stanley bailey plane, and says that it hasn't been improved upon (supposing he means in the context of actual work, and not catalog contest numbers like iron hardness, cast iron ductility, flatness spec), I certainly agree 100%!!!

[Steve Voigt]

I'm not trying to start a war here at all, I personally find his videos refreshing and fun, and I'd much rather watch that than watch another guy use 12 different special jigs and power tools to create a M&T joint. However, I have seen a lot of (sometimes random) negative comments about him lately some as bad as "I dislike anything Sellers", and I've been wondering why that is…

I guess I made that comment the other day, so I'll own up to it. I don't want to start a war either; Sellers is a skilled woodworker and if people get value out of his writings/videos/etc, I'm happy for them. But since you asked, here are my objections.

The first thing is that Seller's methods are pretty idiosyncratic. That is, his takes on sharpening technique, stones, workbench design, workholding, coping saw use, and many other things fly in the face of what most other experts have done, in some cases for centuries.

By itself, that is fine. The problem, for me, is when he marries these methods to an absolutely dogmatic insistence that his is the ONLY right way to do things, and everyone else is WRONG. For example, hollow grinding is "weak", using a jig is "not real woodworking", waterstones are "a fad", low workbenches are "ridiculous", etc. On pretty much every subject, he presents himself as a Guru, the lonely truth teller in a world of disbelievers. That's what bothers me.

The other thing is that I'm not really impressed with his methods. Some stuff, particularly the saw sharpening, is just fine. But a lot of other stuff, not so much. Have you ever seen the pics where he's trying to explain why a Record vise is (supposedly) better than any other vise? He's got this incredibly awkward setup, where there's a pony clamp holding the work, wedged into the vise. It could be so much simpler, but he keeps insisting that his way is best.

I think that Sellers learned most of his methods as a young man in the 1960s. People like to represent this as some sort of traditional apprenticeship, but it's not like he was working in an 18th century shop. The 60s were pretty much the nadir of the hand-tool woodworking darkness; it's like saying you learned quality control in Detroit in the 1970s. When I see the chisel-router trick that David mentioned, I think it's a neat trick, but it reminds me of that scene in Terminator where they're sitting in front of a TV, but they're using it as a fireplace. In the 20th century, so many traditional techniques and methods (like leg vises,to take just one example) were more or less abandoned; the chain was broken, except for a very few people who bothered to research the old ways. In the last 20 years, there's been a tremendous resurgence of people rediscovering these old techniques. But it doesn't seem to have affected Sellers at all;I think as far as he's concerned, he already knows it all and has nothing to learn from anyone else. I think if he really tried to understand, say a traditional Scandinavian-style or Roubo-style bench, he would have to admit they work better, but that will never happen. He's too invested in being a guru; it's how he makes his living.

I'd also add that I agree with what Dave said in his post above. You can learn from reading books, watching some videos, and most of all practicing. There are no secrets, and almost all the information you need is free or pretty cheap, either on the web or from your local library. There's no need to pay $160 or whatever to gurus like Sellers, Cosman, etc.

[george wilson]

I did learn hand tool woodworking on my own. By the time I got into college,and did get a good teacher,as far as taste and design was concerned,I was already a competent woodworker. It can be done. I started trying to make guitars at age 13,in Alaska,a cultural vacuum.
I took high school shop,and became,for practical purposes the teacher's assistant in Virginia,after we left Alaska. There was instruction on machine safety. But there was never a word said about sharpening angles for edged tools,or even a mention of not burning your tools on a grinder.

We did have one of those slow grinders that ran in an oil bath,had 2 stones,IIRC,and a large conical stone for inside gouges. No real instruction on how to use it,though.

I think if you have common sense,and a good grip on mechanics,you can learn on your own as I did.

This might be why I do some things the hard way,though.

[Daniel Rode]

George, you are not "most people"