Laser Discounts st Shows?

[Eugene Watson]

I'm considering purchasing a new entry level laser of the brands Trotec, ULS, and Epilog. I've heard that trade shows have good show specials and was wondering if anyone has visited a show this year and what kind of specials they had. I'm thinking of attending the Philly NBM show. Any idea of what kind of discounts I might find?
Thanks!

[Mike Null]

Eugene

Welcome to SMC. My experience is that these people typically have show specials. They may select one particular machine model or several. At the least they are likely to have a discount on the show demo models. Shop and negotiate--there is no such thing as a fixed price on lasers.

If you are a newcomer to the business then these shows can be excellent learning opportunities with respect to materials and techniques so plan to spend extra time beyond shopping for a machine.

[Kevin Gregerson]

I agree with Mike, I service and deal with sales on one of the brands you mentioned along with others. Yes, there are show specials, but more often than not these are not ideally configured systems and getting the extra options can be expensive. If you want to get the right model start with your materials, get an idea of your goals are with those materials throughput or quality. How accurate you want to produce, how fast you want to produce, and what kind of workflow you want to create within your business. Look also at the size of your materials, the cheapest cuts available in what size(48x24 is typically cheaper than a 33-19 on a per sq ft basis) . How reliable do you want it to be or how long you want the system to last. Ask these questions too as you go along. Get references to current customers they are servicing today. Find out how long tubes typically last. Do they make their equipment or do they get it from China? How easy is it to service? If service is needed how long does it take to get parts or a service rep out there? How easy is it to swap out the Laser? Once you get an idea of what the options you need are then look at the pricing. Also, it's usually a good idea to keep relationships with the vendors of these systems as they'll run across used systems every now and again and be able to provide you with notice on these as the used pricing on factory refurbished systems is typically the best pricing you can get. They don't come along very often though.

[Dee Gallo]

Welcome to the Creek, Eugene! I just wanted to add that while it is a great education to attend one of these shows, be careful you don't get over-psyched into buying something that might not be the best for you. It is really easy to be impressed and convinced if you don't know anything about the machine you are looking at. As Kevin mentioned, there is also a list of things needed beside the actual laser which add up quickly!

I recommend you read up on models, power, think about bed size and what you will use the laser for so you can match the type of machine you get to your goals. Use the show as an excellent opportunity to see, feel, hear and ask questions. The reps will do a great job making you love their machines, no doubt. Talk to other attendees about what they have and what they do with theirs. You can't have too much information!

Good luck and have fun at the show!

[Robert Tepper]

I will also add my welcome. Attend the show and look at it as a classroom for demonstrations.

Do not let anyone or any one company encourage you to make an on the spot purchase. Most companies will be more than happy to extend the show special for several weeks after the show.
Have a list in your mind of what your goals with the machine are, the size of the table needed and the amount of power you will require for the end product you plan on manufacturing. Be sure that the machine will work with the software you are using. There are several good choices on the market and you can find a reasonable discount at the shows.

Robert

[Kevin Gregerson]

I wouldn't even use the show as a demonstration booth beyond seeing the workflow. Show's are all about showing the best of the best settings and materials. They often don't do customer materials at shows unless it's something easy like anodized aluminium. Going through workflow on each of them to see how it works into your world as good workflow can save you a lot of money down the road in regards to time. If it takes you 20 minutes per job rather than 90 seconds that adds up to a lot of man hours. Being able to service it yourself is another saver as technician time gets expensive pretty quick.

[Eugene Watson]

Thanks all for the great advise. I need to first figure out my budget for this machine...and it seems to be rising every day. I think at this point I'll save my money from going to the show and use it toward the machine. Maybe I'll go to a show after I get my machine.

Kevin, you mentioned "Being able to service it yourself is another saver" , Which machine(s) would you be referring to?

[Brian Rodenz]

Would you say laser prices are always negotiable on new laser purchases from distributers? Is it like negotiating with a car sales man?

[Ross Moshinsky]

Would you say laser prices are always negotiable on new laser purchases from distributers? Is it like negotiating with a car sales man?

It's worse than going to a car dealership. Car dealerships have prices on the cars when you walk up to them and you have the internet to verify prices and find "invoice" pricing. Laser pricing, except for Chinese units, is some big secret for whatever reason. They could quote you $10,000 and I could call and they might quote $9,500.

Show pricing makes negotiation easier. I have no doubt that you could pay show pricing 2 months after a show. It just might take a bit more work.

[Kevin Gregerson]

It's worse than going to a car dealership. Car dealerships have prices on the cars when you walk up to them and you have the internet to verify prices and find "invoice" pricing. Laser pricing, except for Chinese units, is some big secret for whatever reason. They could quote you $10,000 and I could call and they might quote $9,500.

Show pricing makes negotiation easier. I have no doubt that you could pay show pricing 2 months after a show. It just might take a bit more work.

Hah, if you think invoice pricing on cars is real by any means you have no idea. Typical product margin at the last step on any product including cars is 30-40 percent. Obviously none of them will sell it to you for that because they have light bills to pay ect. But lets say the msrp is 80k. Figure their cost is 65 percent of that 52k. Add in admin cost of 15 percent brings you to 59800(this covers lights, trucks, rent and delivery). Then add another 15 percent for the sales team commissions (your sales guy only gets between 20-40 percent of the profit between admin and sale price) 68,770 and getting it for around 70k is what you should expect to pay if price is your only concern but you may lose value out of the support side. The big part is make sure you get the MSRP and work backwards from there. The MSRP for the companies above all exists on the net. Also, not every laser is equal. Support is a huge portion of what you pay for between vendors. I've seen mistakes cost thousands. Also look at how much time your sales guy is spending on you.

[Dan Wilhelm]

He didn't say it was "invoice price"...he just said that there was A price on the car. I know where he's coming from too. When I started shopping for a laser, I wanted to see just how much cheaper the Chinese lasers were than domestic models. I would have been willing to pay a small premium to get one of the better made US or German lasers, but I couldn't find any pricing information for them online. Turns out, you have to pay a LARGE premium. If you look hard enough, you can find old price lists or anecdotal evidence of what people have paid. It's just ridiculous that they keep basic information like price a secret.

[Ross Moshinsky]

Hah, if you think invoice pricing on cars is real by any means you have no idea. Typical product margin at the last step on any product including cars is 30-40 percent. Obviously none of them will sell it to you for that because they have light bills to pay ect. But lets say the msrp is 80k. Figure their cost is 65 percent of that 52k. Add in admin cost of 15 percent brings you to 59800(this covers lights, trucks, rent and delivery). Then add another 15 percent for the sales team commissions (your sales guy only gets between 20-40 percent of the profit between admin and sale price) 68,770 and getting it for around 70k is what you should expect to pay if price is your only concern but you may lose value out of the support side. The big part is make sure you get the MSRP and work backwards from there. The MSRP for the companies above all exists on the net. Also, not every laser is equal. Support is a huge portion of what you pay for between vendors. I've seen mistakes cost thousands. Also look at how much time your sales guy is spending on you.

What are you ranting about? I never said what invoice pricing meant. I simply said you can go online and find "invoice" pricing. It's information. More information then what's available in the laser industry. That was my entire point.

[Brian Rodenz]

I have met with a few sales reps and have received price sheets from them. What you are telling me is that the price on the price sheet is negotiable? I have no idea why pricing is so secretive...a phone call to any of the US brands and they will tell you straight away the price.

[Glen Monaghan]

[...]they will tell you straight away the price.

The Western lasers have list or MSR prices and your salesman will tell you "a" price, possibly starting out with their list price or MSRP, possibly not. But your salesman quite possibly will tell you a different price than my salesman tells me, and there's no good way to know, but it's doubtful the price you get from an exploratory phone call is the best price you can get.

[Scott Shepherd]

Must be government pricing, I've never heard of anyone paying those prices. They are really high.