A #5 for a beginner

[Moses Yoder]

A question was asked yesterday that led to this post. I volunteered to send a plane for a little less than I paid plus cost of shipping to someone that was just starting out (the plane cost me $3). The caveat is not spending a bunch of money. I have a type 14 #5 with I think rosewood handles, a nickle lever cap, sweetheart iron, lightly rusted. If I had the time I would most certainly put it through an electrolysis bath. I suggested he clean up and tune this plane and get 2 more irons for it. One would be a strong camber, the second a mild camber, and the third would be straight. I would recommend starting with cheap Stanley irons to learn sharpening and planing. Thus you could make do with one plane to start out.

Below is the plane I offered to send him. It is missing the front screw for the tote right now but I am sure I have one. How would you feel about the one plane plan, and tackling this plane as a beginner? Are there any options for the same price that would be better? Where would you buy starter irons?

#5 Left side.jpg#5 right.jpgparts.jpg

[Judson Green]

I've bought and use ones that were in worse shape, going from the pictures. Its a very fair price for a 5 especially with the coveted sweetheart iron. When first starting out the missing screw might have made me pass on it, but not now that I've got a few parts planes.

Edit: With a scotch bight pad, bar keepers friend, a little oil, a little wax and an hour it would look just fine. Is the totes horn broke? That would take some skill (that he may or may not have yet) and more time, if its not badly broke I'd use anyway.

[Mel Miller]

Those handle toe screws seem to be frequently missing. A simple work around is to use a frog screw, which is easier to find, and has the same thread.

[don wilwol]

I hate taking the time to change the blade, reset the frog and adjust for the cut. #5s can typically be found reasonable. When you can find the whole plane for $3, why would you go through the hassle?

[David M Anderson]

Moses I agree with you 100%, what better way for a beginner, than to restore or clean up his plane.
It will teach him about planes, and what better way to start to learn how to sharpen a iron, is on a lower cost acquisition.
Front tote screws can be found on-line, sure they are inflated price wise, but still money ahead even if he paid 20 dollars for the plane.
I seriously doubt this would be (he or she), last plane purchase after a successful rehab.
I can see, "slippery slopes" ahead for this individual.

[don wilwol]

I can see, "slippery slopes" ahead for this individual.

As much fun as a water slide in a amusement park!!

[Daniel Rode]

It's a little bit like giving a new driver a car to repair as a way to learn to drive. Learning to repair a plane is not the same as learning to use a plane. Don't get me wrong, I do think it's beneficial to learn how a plane works and fixing up a vintage plane is a great way to get started without spending much money. I've learned a lot that way recently but at first it was a wreck.

When I bought my first plane, I knew nothing about using planes, tuning planes or metalwork in general. I also did not know anyone who did. Turns out I bought a recent (new) Stanley #4. These planes are awful quality and require a ton of work to get them to do anything that resembles shaving wood. I didn't know how to fix it. Heck, I didn't even know how to sharpen the iron. I bought a block plane and had slightly better results but it never became a useful tool to me.

The result was that I gave up on hand tools for several years. I assumed they were finicky beasts that required unobtainable knowledge and skill to use and had the precision of an axe.

If you grew up around hand tools or metalworking, rehabbing and using a plane may seem simple and obvious. To some of the new folks, it may be a complete mystery and, like me, will need some remedial lessons.

[David Weaver]

Have him buy one of the irons from LV - one of the ones that are already flat on the back, and he can buy another iron either from home depot (the $3 buck irons are usable and easy to flatten).

The first plane I ever bought was a plastic handled 5. I'd be FAR ahead to have gotten something like that instead. The second plane I ever bought, IIRC, was a Lie Nielsen 60 1/2, and then a Lie Nielsen #6 after that.

I like to send planes to beginners assembled and ready to use, but I've never had a $3 plane to send to someone. I no longer buy planes when I'm out, I just don't have much interest, but I think a decent service by every experienced user would be to buy a #4 or #5, clean it up and get it sharp and use it for a little bit to check it out, and then provide it to a beginner for the cost of shipping on the condition that they cannot do anything with it other than use it or give it free to someone else.

It takes me less than an hour to get a plane like that in shape with the bottom lapped, the wood cleaned up, and the iron flattened and sharpened - and I'm sure it takes the beginner longer to do it and they would clean or sand or try to lap a bunch of parts of the plane that don't need any of that to work well.

[don wilwol]

It's a little bit like giving a new driver a car to repair as a way to learn to drive. Learning to repair a plane is not the same as learning to use a plane. Don't get me wrong, I do think it's beneficial to learn how a plane works and fixing up a vintage plane is a great way to get started without spending much money. I've learned a lot that way recently but at first it was a wreck.

When I bought my first plane, I knew nothing about using planes, tuning planes or metalwork in general. I also did not know anyone who did. Turns out I bought a recent (new) Stanley #4. These planes are awful quality and require a ton of work to get them to do anything that resembles shaving wood. I didn't know how to fix it. Heck, I didn't even know how to sharpen the iron. I bought a block plane and had slightly better results but it never became a useful tool to me.

The result was that I gave up on hand tools for several years. I assumed they were finicky beasts that required unobtainable knowledge and skill to use and had the precision of an axe.

If you grew up around hand tools or metalworking, rehabbing and using a plane may seem simple and obvious. To some of the new folks, it may be a complete mystery and, like me, will need some remedial lessons.

While I agree being a mechanic may not make you a better driver, it will make you a better car person. I think the theory (or at least in my mind) is learning to tune and restore a plane will make you a better plane person. If you get tear out, you know to look at the chip breaker setting, the mouth opening or the sharpness depending on the situation, and the plane in hand.

Couldn't you're situation been the same had you bought a new LN, got a really bad grain, dulled the plane, couldn't make it work because you didn't know how to sharpen or set it for the grain? The more you learn about any subject is going to make you closer to an expert on that subject. Not being able to make it work the first few times and giving up can happen in any situation.

Maybe in the several years between buying the first plane, you learned about wood, wood direction and how to cut it, and that contributed to your eventual success just as much as the plane itself.

Just a thought!

[Daniel Rode]

Couldn't you're situation been the same had you bought a new LN, got a really bad grain, dulled the plane, couldn't make it work because you didn't know how to sharpen or set it for the grain? The more you learn about any subject is going to make you closer to an expert on that subject. Not being able to make it work the first few times and giving up can happen in any situation.

A LN or Veritas comes out of the box generally ready to use, They are made to tight tolerances and pass thorough QA. While I might have struggled with one of these as well but odds are I would have had more success. All I would have had to do is learn to sharpen the iron and learn to slice wood. That's a lot less to take on.

[Jim Koepke]

It's a little bit like giving a new driver a car to repair as a way to learn to drive.

That is a 'right of passage' I have seen many a youngster go through.

My education in woodworking was minimal when I took up the hobby. I kept with it and learned a lot about fixing up old planes and other tools. I am sure there is even more for me to learn.

Below is the plane I offered to send him. It is missing the front screw for the tote right now but I am sure I have one. How would you feel about the one plane plan, and tackling this plane as a beginner? Are there any options for the same price that would be better? Where would you buy starter irons?

As Mel pointed out a frog screw is a good substitute for the toe screw. One of my planes still has one with the head filed round to look more like an original.

If the new owner wants inexpensive blades for different planing jobs my suggestion would be to stick with the blades from Home Depot. Not a lot of outlay to get started.

Hopefully the person who is just starting out has someone they can ask questions if they get stuck. Or maybe you can encourage them to join us here.

jtk

[Andrew Pitonyak]

And that is why my first hand plane was a LN. It was simply too overwhelming to even consider all of the things that I needed to figure out how to do before I could even consider starting to use the plane. It might help in that he has already found a community that will answer each question along the way, however.

[David M Anderson]

And that is why my first hand plane was a LN. It was simply too overwhelming to even consider all of the things that I needed to figure out how to do before I could even consider starting to use the plane. It might help in that he has already found a community that will answer each question along the way, however.

I agree a new LN or LV is nice, you still have to take it apart clean the shipping oil off and depending on your infatuation for sharpness lap the new blade even further.
Also with "new LN or LV" your hand are the first to touch it outside the factory, the only thing it helped make is what you use it on, yep use it pretty much "right out of the box".

An older quality plane on the other hand, depends on what side of the corral you stand on. Not worth you time to fiddle with, or hours of extreme pleasure to put it back to working order. I also can imagine, who used it before me.

Take the new plane in hand and ponder "what can I build"?
With the vintage, I can ponder the same and wonder what did it help build..?

Just a thought

[Prashun Patel]

I strongly agree with andrew. Its hard to learn how to sharpen, let alone adjust and use a plane properly. Walk before you run.

If you decide you want the romance, do it on your next plane. Trust me, planes are like potato chips.

[don wilwol]

It really depends on the person. I love cleaning and tuning. I have since the first one several years ago. If you enjoy bringing things back to life, then do it. If you'd rather go straight to wood working, look to LN or the like.