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Thread: Workbench options

  1. #16
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    Oct 2013
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    I do have plans to build a new bench in the future (leaning towards the Holtzappfel design in Schwarz's book, but that is obviously something I need to think about more), but right now I am interesting in modifying/adding to my current bench. It's very basic, 36x80 with a slab door for the bench, about 36" tall and 2" or so thick.

    Appreciate all of the advice thus far.

  2. #17
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    So many options from which to choose.

    Some can work without vises using dog holes, wedges and battens. There are those who love their twin-screw bench top vise, also called a Moxon vise.

    Some feel there is only one way to build a bench and all others are not worthy.

    If it does what you want and need to do, then it is the right bench for you no matter what anyone else proclaims.

    if I try to use just on pair of dogs, the vise racks terribly.
    "For every problem there is a solution" - Morgan Freeman's character in RED

    If the bench is too light, a 5 gallon bucket full of sand or cement can come in real handy.

    There are many ways to solve any problem in a woodworking shop.

    Part of the design process of one's bench is to introduce as few future problems as possible.

    The defining criteria are your plans for future projects and your own method of work.

    Ken has the best idea for many of life's challenges,
    In other words....use KISS
    Keep It Simple!

    Some love their Scandinavian style benches. For my way of working it doesn't fill the bill.

    Some love their Nicohlson benches. Others abhor the idea of any apron across the front let alone one that covers so much area.

    The Rubo bench is very popular. I was intrigued by the idea of a wagon vise. It doesn't seem to have the versatility my simple vise (yes it racks) for some of the odd jobs done in my shop. I am still considering a leg vise. The more it is thought of the less likely it will be incorporated.

    Building a bench or retrofitting one already built requires some thought on the part of the user.

    The most important consideration isn't what works for others, it is what will work best for you, your needs and your future plans.

    jtk
    Last edited by Jim Koepke; 08-14-2014 at 12:42 PM.
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  3. #18
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    Aug 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Stevens2 View Post
    I have a pretty basic workbench that I knocked up as I was beginning to get into woodworking, about a year ago. I have definitely discovered as time goes by and I am trying to get more done that the limitations of the bench are really bothering me - namely, workholding.

    I do not have any vises or holes for dogs/holdfasts, so I spend a lot of time messing with clamping workarounds that really don't work. Most of the work I have been doing is furniture such as bookcases and tables. I would like to start making chests, drawers and the like, and I know that my bench won't be up to snuff to that type of work. I also have not really gotten into hand planing much yet and would like to, as soon as I can get my planes tuned up so that they work properly.

    What might be the most appropriate options for the type of work I've been doing and would like to do? A leg vise appeals for its holding ability and versatility, but what other options might be best for my 'needs'? I'd appreciate all the advice I can get - searching for the web just adds to the confusion sometimes!
    So many choices in workbench designs and features and oh and so many opinions about what is best. I'd like to know more about the specifics of what you need to do and what exactly the problem is. I'd go after a very specific task and see what needs to be done to your existing bench to make it work for you. It might be that a simple face vice is all you need but I really can't say. If you say "hey, I need to edge joint 7 foot long, 8 inch wide boards for a table top I'm making" then the bench requirements are totally different than if you want to clamp a board to cut dovetails. Maybe you really want to face plane a bunch of short thin boards for small boxes for example - a special fixture for your current bench could be easily be designed to help you out. Lets talk specifics and figure out how to make your current bench work for you, save you some time and money, build your experience and learn what you need because everyone has different needs and therefore solutions that are more or less optimal for them.

  4. #19
    Given where you're coming from in your original post, this is why I think your best bet is a face vise:

    1) It's not a huge investment; the Record Style or vise hardware alone are relatively cheap.
    2) It's straight forward to install; you just need some good overhang on your top so the screw doesn't hit your bench legs
    3) You can put a line of dog holes in line with the vise and you now are able to face plane your drawers and cabinet sides
    4) You can make a t out of scrap for a planing stop that you can chuck into your vise and now you have something to face plane things too large for 3)
    5) You can put a parallel clamp onto your other front leg for support, then you can clamp large boards on edge (with the far end resting on the clamp) and now you can plane long edges
    6) You can cut dovetails by clamping the board edge in the vise and using a spacer on the other side of the screw to avoid racking.
    7) Put a lip on your miter box or position your vise chop flush with the end of your bench and now you can cross cut things.

    Moxons, twin screws, tails, wagons, and leg vises make some of the above a little more comfortable, but none are as versatile as the simple face vise. Down the road, you'll discover whether you really want something for dovetailing, jointing, carving, etc; then you can get one of the above - and you might not then feel bad spending the $200-300 it might cost. For now, I say keep it simple. Also, one can never have too many vises, so you'll still find use for this as/if you need one of the others.

  5. #20
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    Oct 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Barry View Post
    So many choices in workbench designs and features and oh and so many opinions about what is best. I'd like to know more about the specifics of what you need to do and what exactly the problem is. I'd go after a very specific task and see what needs to be done to your existing bench to make it work for you. It might be that a simple face vice is all you need but I really can't say. If you say "hey, I need to edge joint 7 foot long, 8 inch wide boards for a table top I'm making" then the bench requirements are totally different than if you want to clamp a board to cut dovetails. Maybe you really want to face plane a bunch of short thin boards for small boxes for example - a special fixture for your current bench could be easily be designed to help you out. Lets talk specifics and figure out how to make your current bench work for you, save you some time and money, build your experience and learn what you need because everyone has different needs and therefore solutions that are more or less optimal for them.
    Pat,

    Right now there are two projects I'm working on - one is a small table with a single drawer, the other is a saw till. The table is probably half completed. I had to cut a few mortise and tenons for the aprons and legs, and it seemed like my system of clamping to the table wasn't optimal - occasionally the legs shifted as I was chopping into them. Cutting the tenons was quite difficult, and I did manage, but they are probably a tad on the rough side (don't have a shoulder plane right now). I would like to join the drawer with dovetails, though that is contingent on me figuring out how to make dovetails! Definitely a skill I would like to have, though, since I would like to make some chests of drawers in the future. I'm also planning to taper the legs - I haven't yet figured out how I am going to secure them at the moment to do that.

    With the saw till, I would like to be able to plane the boards that I'm using, I've had a hard time with that recently and probably a primary reason why some of my work is sub-par. I just haven't quite figured out how to do it with jigs and clamps. Also, a lot of the examples I've seen use dovetails on the case joinery, and that will certainly be an option to pursue.

  6. #21
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    Dec 2010
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    I found watching Bob Rozaieski work at his bench on the Logan Cabinet Shoppe podcasts a revelation.

    Rather than holding everything down with clamps, and fixtures -
    he employs a series of stops and battens which restrict movement
    without special fixtures.

    Two parallel rows of 3/4" dog holes and a pair of Veritas aluminum planing stops were shown
    in use by more experienced Neanderthals in the Creek.

    They work, are easy to move out of the way and seem durable.

    I have had a crochet, and leg vise on my bench.
    I was forever bumping into one, and wrestling with the other.
    I now use a permanent Moxxon on one and a Patternmaker's vise on the other.

    I would recommend a quick release face vise with the rear jaw flush to the front "skirt".

    Leg vises are nice, but humidity played hell with mine - it was jammed half the year and sloppy the other half.
    (To be fair, I made it myself.)

  7. #22
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    Apr 2013
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    Wild Wild West USA
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    KISS

    If one is building a wheel barrow then yes
    It is a good thing Enzo Ferrari didn’t listen when they told HIM that otherwise people wouldn’t be having near as much fun.

    It is a good thing Frank Klausz didn’t listen when they told HIM that other wise I wouldn’t be having near as much fun.

    By the way Frank listened to his father and his father’s father and his father’s father’s father and they seemed to agree. Hard to argue with three generations of pro cabinet making.

    I am happy I listened to Frank Klausz ; this is a very rough quote: "If you are going to build furniture, if you are going to hand cut dovetails for drawers then there is nothing better . . . it can not be improved on. It has a 1000 years of refinement by pro cabinet makers behind it. I just made one as well as I could make it."

    It is not simple. It is sophisticated and it makes me smile every time I use it.
    It isn’t cheep to make. It isn’t quick to make. It will challenge you to the max.

    You want simple ? Make a Japanese planing beam. That is what I made my Klausz on with a little mod here and there.
    Sharpening is Facetating.
    Good enough is good enough
    But
    Better is Better.

  8. #23
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    Building my bench was one of my most enjoyable projects to date, enjoyable to build and you get to use it with every project after, and it improves your experience.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  9. #24
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    Oct 2013
    Location
    Atlanta
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    I have returned to this question after playing around with a Stanley 78 that I got off ebay. At the moment it's the only plane I have that can take shavings, and the amount of flex and movement in my bench when I tried to use it makes me think I won't even be able to plane anything I try to build - including a new workbench! I have been ripping (very poorly) pieces of SYP to use as a laminated top, so obviously they'll need a lot of flattening before they're usable. I do not have a jointer or planer and don't know anyone who does, so I am feeling a bit stuck now.

    Anyone in the Atlanta area with access to a jointer or planer, or in general is there some place I can go to get a useful top for a new bench? Obviously the one I have isn't up to snuff.

    Those of you wondering how I got by with using hand planes previously, well, I haven't been able to get them to work, either through sheer ignorance or poor technique. Feeling a little discouraged right now.

  10. #25
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    Mar 2006
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    Austin Texas
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    Discouragement understood, but NOT ALLOWED. No one else knew this stuff when they started unless they had someone teach them as they grew up. The rest of us struggled (still struggle) and progressed slowly, surely along. Things get better as your hand skill progresses. The innerwebs (esp You Tube) hold a wealth of "how to" info and keep asking questions here. Also, there are several books and instructional DVDs that are very good help with starting out. Ask the very basic questions if you want to so you can be sure that you are starting down the right road. It sounds like you need a little help with setting up and maybe sharpening the plane iron. If so, this is the place for questions/tutorials/etc. Same with dovetails. Sharpening is a big deal in hand woodworking and the guys here can set you up for that at the price point that works for you. Send in a photo of your present bench so the heavy hitters on the forum can offer suggestions on how to best use what you have now to build your table and plane till and plan a new bench if that is deemed what is needed. There is bound to be a way to stiffen/beef up the current table (esp if you don't mind it not looking pretty and knowing you will replace it later on) and add a basic vise if needed, plus there are photos and links to hold downs and battens to get around the lack of a vise. I suggest tackling the issues one a time and start building your skill, knowledge and/or tooling as you go. As an example, maybe get the plane thing figured out before you move on to dovetails. Learn how to sharpen plane irons and chisels, spend a little $ on whatever sharpening system you choose, then it is easier to go to dovetails with sharp chisels. Best of luck, OK to walk away briefly when the aggra is too much, but come back for another round when you are good to go again.
    David

  11. #26
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    Feb 2003
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    Pleasant Grove, UT
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    Put on a face vise, whether leg or QR metal or wood vise, any will work, some just better for different types of work. Drill a bunch of dog holes, some running the length of the bench, some running perpendicular centered on the face vise. Get a pair of Gramercy holdfasts and something to whack them with. Instead of a tail vise, just get a Vertias Wonder Dog (or Wonder Pup). Make dogs out of 3/4' wood dowels. Make a planing stop that bridges your perpendicular dog holes. Voila, you can now hold almost anything. Add a bench slave if you need more support for planing long edges.
    It came to pass...
    "Curiosity is the ultimate power tool." - Roy Underhill
    The road IS the destination.

  12. #27
    Hi Adam,

    The 'best' vise type is somewhat subjective. On my bench I have a Record style face vise on the side and a Veritas Twin Screw on the end. I find that I use the face vise over 90% of the time. Most of the time when I use the Twin Screw I am just using is as an end vise to hold work between two bench dogs. A great source of information on workbenches is: http://www.workbenchdesign.net/

    Maybe I am biased, but I really like my adjustable height bench. I find that I adjust the height fairly often to match the work I am doing at the time.

    Best of luck!
    Charlie
    Jack-Bench
    Adjustable Height Workbench Plans

  13. #28
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    Aug 2010
    Location
    USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Stevens2 View Post
    I have returned to this question after playing around with a Stanley 78 that I got off ebay. At the moment it's the only plane I have that can take shavings, and the amount of flex and movement in my bench when I tried to use it makes me think I won't even be able to plane anything I try to build - including a new workbench! I have been ripping (very poorly) pieces of SYP to use as a laminated top, so obviously they'll need a lot of flattening before they're usable. I do not have a jointer or planer and don't know anyone who does, so I am feeling a bit stuck now.

    Anyone in the Atlanta area with access to a jointer or planer, or in general is there some place I can go to get a useful top for a new bench? Obviously the one I have isn't up to snuff.

    Those of you wondering how I got by with using hand planes previously, well, I haven't been able to get them to work, either through sheer ignorance or poor technique. Feeling a little discouraged right now.
    So, that plane isn't what you need right now. You need something like a Stanley #5. There are lots out there and the price should not be too high. Spend a bit of work to get it sharp and you will be flattening away in no time. You can laminate those ripped pieces together and then flatten the whole bunch at once. I did this with an Ash benchtop. It took a while but that number 5 plane did basically the whole job.

  14. #29
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    Sep 2014
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    Ft Lauderdale
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    I can understand his frustration with the bench as I have none right now. I'm trying to get the needed tools together and at the same time my brain is doing cart wheels over the bench. At least from what I have seen the prices on the hardwood used on real benches are really high they are cost prohibitive for me. I am debating what materials to use on the top construction grade pine seems like it would be too soft maybe I'm wrong.

  15. #30
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    Oct 2013
    Location
    Atlanta
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    The problem with my bench at the moment is the top - it's currently a hollow core door (yeah I know). I am wondering how much utility a solid core door would add for me at this stage? I am not really sure it'll fit in my car, not to mention the weight, but it might be an option for the time being while I am working on something better.

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