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Thread: Shapton 8000k stone questions

  1. #1
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    Shapton 8000k stone questions

    I have been getting mixed results from this stone and as a beginner I'm not sure what to make of it. When I hone the bevel on a plane or chisel on this stone it leave a beautiful mirror polish. The backs of chisels and plane blades,however, are reflective but more what I would call cloudy. Now I know that the purpose is to get the tools sharp, but I just can't help but wonder why I am experiencing this. Any thoughts?

  2. #2
    Something loose rolling around on the surface of the stone, or not a clean stone surface. But it makes no difference in terms of the quality of the edge unless there's actually something in the stone swarf damaging the edge. the 8k is something like a 2 micron stone, even if there are loose particles in the swarf (that are from the stone or from the iron), it should be fine.

    If you want to get a bright finish just to get it, lap the surface of the stone, remove all of the swarf and just hone on clear water. Repeat if it loads.

  3. #3
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    like I said, I get a good edge I believe, just looking for a way to explain the results between the back and front. Could it be that my backs arent as flat as I think they are? I went outside to take a picture of it but realized it is so slight that the camera doesnt really get it. Its minor, but its the there. The bevel is a mirror, the back is a dirty chrome bumper.

  4. #4
    It's possible, it could be any number of things.

    I could get a spider webbed polish with a shapton 5k, and of course the 15k made a bright polish. I think the polish with the 8k should be bright.

    If the back isn't as flat as you'd expect, you should still have some bright spots that are polished - the high spots.

    Another thing that keeps you from getting a good polish (which I seriously doubt is the issue) is lack of hardness. But the lack of hardness has to be so drastic that it would literally not hold an edge.

  5. #5
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    Not sure why, but sometimes it seems my 4K King stone leaves a better polish than my 8K Norton.

    The King seems kind of hard and the Norton feels soft in comparison.

    The 8K definitely leaves the edge sharper than the 4K.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  6. #6
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    David - I do have certain spots on the back of the blade that are more what I would expect from the 8000k stone. Although I have witnessed this on several blades, I only decided to pose my question because this is a brand new Hock Blade that I am working. I figured if I spent all that money on a new blade I'd shine her up real nice but so far I'm not getting the shine I'm looking for. I usually flatten at 1000k then polish at 8000k(unless the back needs more aggressive work, obviously). Would it benefit me at all to have an intermediate stone like a 5000k to make it easier to remove the 1000k scratches? Up until this point I have hesitated doing this because the bevel has always cleaned up so well on my 8000k.

    Jim - Thanks for your input, I believe I have read about there being differences in manufacturers grit ratings. Not sure there should be such a noticeable difference in between those two stones though haha.

  7. #7
    If you put finger pressure near the edge, do you get a good polish right at the edge? If you get a good polish right at the edge, then you're where you need to be.

    It is *extremely* unlikely that a hock blade would be underhard, so it's either a flatness issue or a loose particle/contamination issue.

  8. #8
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    It's hard to say, I get a good polish but not as clear as the bevel.

  9. #9
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    I have to assume the stone is not flat and that the problem only presents itself when dealing with a wider object such as the back of the blade versus only the bevel. Just strange that it happens to all my chisels and plane blades hehe

  10. #10
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    It is like David said originally.
    We understand (sounded like you think he didn't understand your original post. He did understand).
    If I make slurry or allow slurry to form then I get the cloudiness. If I clean the stone with water and take the nagura over the stone like an eraser to get rid of the blackened areas where there is still metal imbedded in the stone THEN RINSE THE STONE so there is just water on it JUST AS DAVID RECOMMENDED then I get the mirror.
    Sharpening is Facetating.
    Good enough is good enough
    But
    Better is Better.

  11. #11
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    4K King stone leaves a better polish than my 8K Norton.
    "Old Norton" or "New Norton" ? ? ?
    the new ones made in Mexico are junk or at least last I conversed with some one about them they were junk. The old ones, like three or four years ago and older are great ! Well made, consistently fine grit, hard enough to work well soft enough to cut fast enough. I love my old one. I just went all Shapton to get the cool storage / drying box. (I don't use the box as a holder for sharpening ever).
    Sharpening is Facetating.
    Good enough is good enough
    But
    Better is Better.

  12. #12
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    I usually flatten at 1000k then polish at 8000k
    DUDE . . . THERE'S YOUR PROBLEM
    You need to work through all or most of the grits between your 1000 and the 8000.
    If you want the nice mirror.
    For the back or for a larger than micro small bevel.
    I go 700, 1000, 2000, 4000, 5000, 8000. Some times I will leave out the 4000 which is the Norton and just go 2000 to 5000 (more often than not).

    But I am going for the ultimate polish and edge (cause it is "my thing").
    You could go 1K, 4K, 8K
    I used to go 700, 1200, 4k, 8K and got stellar results with a mix of King and Norton stones.

    First photo of stones there is the green Shapton 2000 in with the King and Nortons. The 2K was my first Shapton.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Winton Applegate; 08-15-2014 at 10:22 PM. Reason: Photos and more photos
    Sharpening is Facetating.
    Good enough is good enough
    But
    Better is Better.

  13. #13
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    I see, so an intermediate stone would help it sounds like. Would adding just a 5000k Shapton between my 1000k and 8000k get me there? I haven't seen a 4000k shapton lately but maybe I missed it.

  14. #14
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    Not that I really can recommend glass stones but here is a 4000 Shapton
    http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/Q!0000000.htm
    and the same thing but different
    http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/Q!00000HC.htm

    If you can get an old Norton 4000 (ebay or old stock at the local WoodCraft store) it is a very effective stone. Old meaning MADE IN THE USA.
    One could almost use it as their only sharpening stone. And really there isn’t much reason to go past a 6000 stone for most wood cutting edges but I like to fool around in the upper reaches of silly sharp.

    I am sure David can recommend a superior fill in stone from Stu. Stu seems to be theeee source these days for great stones at a good price. I have yet to deal with him; mostly because as any one here will tell you I have way too many stones already.
    Last edited by Winton Applegate; 08-16-2014 at 5:22 AM.
    Sharpening is Facetating.
    Good enough is good enough
    But
    Better is Better.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Cherry View Post
    I see, so an intermediate stone would help it sounds like. Would adding just a 5000k Shapton between my 1000k and 8000k get me there? I haven't seen a 4000k shapton lately but maybe I missed it.
    Something like a 2k would be more helpful. the 5k is 3 microns particle size and the 8k is 2. You want a bigger gap. I think the 2k is something like 7 and the 1000 is almost 15, so you'd have a progression that went like 15,7,2, which is better than 15,3,2

    particle size is not linearly related to the stones grit number.

    As far as two stones, I used to go 1,5,15k, but it was absolutely fine to go 1k straight to 15 for me. I'd work the polish right at the edge (bias with finger pressure) and gradually the rest of the back would get polished with subsequent flattenings. There was no difference in sharpness.

    I think winton is sword polishing or something with that regime.

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