Shapton 8000k stone questions

[Mike Cherry]

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Post 2k Post 8k

I think we can agree this is cloudy...and extremely frustrating

[Daniel Rode]

It's not something I would personally be concerned with. I've seen bulky objects and most often hair clog plumbing traps but never sand, dirt or anything resembling swarf. Heavy objects like rings or other metal are likely to settle in the trap. The constant flush of water through the trap tends to carry small light particles with it.

Perhaps a very old drum style trap might allow some to collect but I doubt it.

[David Weaver]

It's unusual to see lines like that on something that was on a shapton 8k. Still, the use test applies - if the chisel behaves like it's sharp, then it doesn't matter what the back looks like.

[Prashun Patel]

Ok, I'm going to guess it's about technique now. Can you photo a pic of your blade and your stones and rags during the process?

[Winton Applegate]

stone residue collecting in your plumbing?

In all seriousness I can see where that could be a problem.
In actual practice here are a few points that come to mind from the hip as it were and I have a very sound and "scientific" way to resolve the validity of this one so stay tuned.

• in the past I have had way more problem with coffee grounds. I now dump the coffee grounds in an empty milk carton and put in the trash can.
• since my stones have lasted practically for ever and i have never worn one apreaciatably I will post a pic of my oldest stone ( the red king there with the strops and first more elaborate sharpening kit ) . . . the amount of silt in the relatively large drain pipe my kitchen sink drops into must be minuscule. Spread out over that span, to the street over which it would cause a "problem", (as opposed to the trap) I see it as insignificant.
• I am full of _____ and so do quite a lot of flushing.
• If there is a problem it is called a drain snake and more flushing gentlemen. Perphaps Woodcraft can get rich selling these drain snakes to woodworkers HA, HA, HA, AHHHhhhhh. l love the way my mind works. Keeps me entertained, but not out of trouble. I have my drain snakes so you are not going to get wealthy from this poster.
• and finally my landlord is a plumber so I can always plead ignorance which he would easily believe or insanity if it comes to that.
• the trap is childs play to clear. Q even removes and clears the one on her bathroom lav her self.

And now it is time for the very sound and "scientific" way to resolve the validity of this one. I would do it myself but due to the fact that I post here more than work wood and so sharpen a little less than some it might not be an enthusiastic experiment.

You all are going to have to get together and determine who sharpens the most with water stones and rinses religiously and that person is going to have to dig up their sewer pipe out in the yard, hack saw (you could use a sawsall but we are Neanders remember) cut out a nice random sample section and post some pics of what you find.
Yuck
Somebody PM me and just describe it I may not have to actually view the photos.
I trust you.

[Winton Applegate]

You really shouldn’t encourage me to keep posting like this. Usually people try to get me to shut the f_____ up.

Keep in mind this is jewelry quality fun and games. You can get away with less for wood working. But as my moniker says “Good enough is good enough but better is better.”

The first photo is of the rags. I used to hang them in the bottom shelf of the pantry just off the kitchen but that was getting to test “the relationship” so before there was a dettante I voluntarily moved them to my closet. Note the Lie-Nielson T-shirt and Duluth fire hose pants. All part of the “ESSENTIALS” of the wannabe home shop hand tool woodworker.

From left to right :

• bandana
• white wash cloth for stone grits 8000 to 15000
• yellow wash cloth for stone grits 2000 to 5000
• green wash cloth for stone grits 120 to 1000

See second photo; the bandanna in action hangs on the cabinet door. It is to make the final wipe before the blade goes on the stack of blades or into a plane. Just to get the little bit of dampness / clean water off. A hot water rinse leaves not much to dry.

The last photo is of my old mix of stones (not all Shaptons). I lay out the rags (folded on counter in foreground) in the same order so even if I “get color blind” I know which rag when. I rinse the rags every now and then. For a whole bunch of blades in a sharpening session a couple of times. In between rinses I squeeze the excess water out over the sink.

I wipe the jig roller and the neoprene mat (not the blade) with the rags .
That keeps the grit from mixing onto the various stones. I never EVER wipe the stone or the blade with one of these three rags.

You want me to post play by play photos through the grits. Nah, dude, nah that would require me to get up off this couch.
Just picture in your mind going grit to grit slightly altering the angle I pull the back of the blade across the stone to be able to see when I have covered the whole previous surface with the new polish. By the way once you have done the back in the area near the edge you will only need to use your finest or two finest grit stones on the back from then on. For the bevel side I don't look at the surface much and pull the blade with the jig on it like six strokes or even less if it is a very small bevel then I switch stones. Once I get into the 4000 (these days it is 5000 and 8000 some times 150000) range I work the bevel then the back then alternate the bevel for a stroke, or even less than a stroke then the other side alternating and lightening my pressure to very light pressure. Then switch to a finer grit. Obviously rinsing and wiping the above said areas between grits.

Now see . . .
I bet you wished you hadn’t asked.

[Prashun Patel]

Thanks winton. I was speaking to mike though. I suspect something is off in his technique since his set up is similar to mine and i am able to get reasonable shine now and i am no pro.

[Winton Applegate]

...................oh

[Pat Barry]

...................oh

Its OK Winton - I appreciate your knowledge

[Pat Barry]

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Post 2k Post 8k

I think we can agree this is cloudy...and extremely frustrating

My unbiased opinion is that either the chisel back or the stone is not flat. Why do I say that? Because the edges look different than the middle.

[Prashun Patel]

Didnt say i wasnt impressed with, (read, a little frightened of) your thoroughness.

[Daniel Rode]

+1

Didnt say i wasnt impressed with, (read, a little frightened of) your thoroughness.

Winton, I suspect I could eat off of your workshop floor

[Winton Applegate]

(read, a little frightened of) your thoroughness.

It scares me at times.

Winton, I suspect I could eat off of your workshop floor

Well you would have lots to eat; as long as you like shavings and dead crickets.

[Mike Cherry]

Sorry guys got a little busy around here.

Winton, that's quite the process you have there. I appreciate you providing your process for me to try and get myself straightened out

Prashun, I'll save the photos for now and come "clean" lol I use the same rag during the entire process. In all honesty I didn't know I needed to be that thorough.

Dial up up a vid on YouTube from lie nielsen on sharpening and That one guy that shows his sharpening routine doesn't go through several rags when changing grits. It's small factors like this that cause new guys so much frustration at times. I'm trying to keep it all in perspective because I know when I have that"aha" moment it will all be worth it.

When I have the back of a chisel or plane bade on my 8k it gets a lot of suction and sometimes I can't even move my blade. Is this normal? How come sometimes my 8k feels like the blade is hydro planing? The first thing I sharpened on these stones were my Narex bench chisels. I have since learned that sometimes chisels have a finish on them that need removing before sharpening. Would not removing this finish damage my stones at all?

[Prashun Patel]

I also have the narex chisels. I do notice that my chisels hold better edges now than they did in the beginning, but that had nothing to do with shiny. I totally relate to your frustration on things like this. A local creeker, wilbut pan, was generous enough to meet me in person and show me how he does it. Then he watched me do it. It was very helpful. My problem at that time was more severe than yours; i just couldnt get sharp on waterstones.

so, you might try starting a new read asking for local help where you are. Two heads banging against a wall are better than one ( or something like that )