Bought My First Backsaw off the Bay - Advice needed

[Matthew N. Masail]

I just got my first backsaw, never handeled one in person before. I think I got a good deal but there is one issue.


The blade is 10" and straight, 13TPI no missing teeth and all are uniform.
Handle is tight and no damage.


when I took it out I noticed that the folded back was not seated all the way at the handle, light hammer taps only seated it so far. I took the handle off and discovered that if seated fully the folded back blocks the handle holes, and even if the hole were not blocked it is too wide and low for the handle slot:

P8170280 (1280x960).jpgP8170283 (1280x960).jpgP8170282 (1280x960).jpg

Seems like the parts might not be original? I'm not too concerned about it, I'm more interested in fixing is up carefully and making a user.


solution? Best solution seem to redrill the holes for the handle lower and slightly deepen the slot in the handle to recive the back?

Other wise carful marking and grinding of the back part of the folded back to fit would be needed but that dosen't seem right, and the moment the slot for the back in the handle ends about half way down the back.


Many thanks.

[bridger berdel]

The back isn't necessarily meant to bottom out on the blade. It might be that you need to raise it at the toe.

[Moses Yoder]

That is a very inexpensive not very old saw but will work fine. I would modify the handle if necessary to make it comfortable and I would set the back all the way down and then mark it and trim it to uncover the holes for the handle. I would guess they are the original parts, just not very well made. As mentioned too, it is not necessary for the back to seat all the way down.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Thanks Moses, the handle is quite comfortable acually, I didn't pay too much so if it ends up a good user I'll be happy. what would be the change in use if I were to lower it by let's say an inch?

[Matthew N. Masail]

Thanks Bridger, that way the back will bearly be half way on the saw... It would bother me all day

[David Weaver]

That is a very inexpensive not very old saw but will work fine.

It's a tyzack, they're actually decent saws. They have a fat plate, but so does everything else compared to the lazer line saws made these days.

Matthew - it's unlikely those parts didn't come together. Most likely, they designed the saw, as mentioned above, so that the back is about halfway down the plate. That gives you flexibility up or down if the plate gets out of straight, to move the back a little bit and try to straighten things out. When I make a kit, i shoot for halfway on. The only reason it looks funny is because the end of a saw is usually pinched shut so that you can't see that the plate isn't seated up against the back.

I'd reset the back to halfway onto the plate and use the original holes and just make sure the nuts are tight when you put it all back together.

Just saw or bandsaw into a piece of scrap wood so that you can tap the back up without bothering the plate.

[Mike Holbrook]

I happen to have a No. 120 Tyzack, 200mm/8" 20 pts, more of a dovetail saw I think. It was a present or gift many years ago, close to the same condition as the day it was made. Mine has three bolts attaching the handle to the plate & back and the handle is a little different. Although the back fits it's slot there is a saw line that continues another inch or more into the handle serving as the cut for the saw plate. Removing my handle revealed that the back on my saw is right on 3/4" short of the end of the saw.

If you are not happy with the handle fit, making a new handle is a fun project that would dress the saw up. Then you could drill another hole or three in the plate to secure the handle better.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Thanks everyone, I guess I'm starting to learn to difference between a decent saw and a finely made one. I'll check it out when I get back home

[Steve Voigt]

You do not want the back all the way down the blade. Have a look at the Bad Axe website--I think Mark has an article up on setting the back. I know George has written about it here many times. Lots of other good sources on the web: Isaac (blackburn tools) has a blog, so does Matt Cianci, etc. They will all tell you not to seat the back all the way. Like Dave said, about half way is good.

[David Weaver]

Thanks everyone, I guess I'm starting to learn to difference between a decent saw and a finely made one. I'll check it out when I get back home

I wouldn't get down on that saw - it's got a decent blade and a massive folded brass back. The difference between that saw and a new premium saw is primarily cosmetic. The style of the handle is just a sign of the times when it was made - mostly machine made.

But then again, a great deal of the disston handles were more machine made than hand made, too.

[lowell holmes]

I would keep the saw as it is while you get more comfortable with it. You may find that no alterations are required.

After a few months, you will have more of an idea what to do with it.

[Winton Applegate]

Well here is the view from serendip :
These are all "modern" saws.
All three of the Lie-Nelson saws have the blade bedded exactly the same. Take note that the backs are machined bars of brass (not folded sheet metal).
All three Lie-Neilsons have the blade all the way in the slot, but the slot is not even half way to the middle width of the bar. I am not saying there is any problem with that; they all work great. And the bars are fully seated to the slots they engage in the handles. There are no gaps at any point between the handle and the back or blade.

The other saw is a Pax.
http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/flinn.htm
It has a folded sheet brass back. The blade is not anywhere near half way into the slot. Looking down into the end of the slot it appears the blade is in the slot about 1/4" to 5/16". There has been no problem with this. The blade back stops short of the end of the slot for it in the handle. There has been no problem with this.

A few photos.

By the way I had to straighten the two large LN back saws the same amount when I got them and it was nearly impossible to do. I had to really horse on them way more than I ever expected to effect a subtle yet necessary change.

[Matthew N. Masail]

I wouldn't get down on that saw - it's got a decent blade and a massive folded brass back. The difference between that saw and a new premium saw is primarily cosmetic. The style of the handle is just a sign of the times when it was made - mostly machine made.

But then again, a great deal of the disston handles were more machine made than hand made, too.

Thanks David. I guess I wasn't too impressed with fit&finish, but I now I know I wasn't looking at the right things.. that's how you learn talking practically, the saw is Massive (don't know yet if that's good or bad) and it feels very solid. the slot in the handle is dead straight and fits very snugly, the nuts for the handle are perfect.

I fixed the problem, just lightly. if left as it was, the back edge of the spine would sit only 1\4inch on the blade, and it stood out from the handle meaning it was clearly visible that it's not all the was down, which bothered me a little. I was able to deepen the slot just enough the have the spine sit fully in the handle and it's now about 1\2 way on the blade at the back and a little more than that at the front, making the blade look a little tapered. knowing that I see quite a few saw on the bay are like that! interesting!

I cleaned in up and refinished the handle with shellac, just to give it a new life, It's actually not a bad looking saw!

P8180284 (1024x768).jpgP8180285 (1024x768).jpg

Teeth are in good shape but quite dull, and it has zero rake so it's grabby, I'm still waiting for my saw file and I sould get a saw set, thinking Ecalips 77, and then I'll sharpen it up, probably the way Sellers shows.

Thanks everyone for posting! I learned a lot.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Well here is the view from serendip :
These are all "modern" saws.
All three of the Lie-Nelson saws have the blade bedded exactly the same. Take note that the backs are machined bars of brass (not folded sheet metal).
All three Lie-Neilsons have the blade all the way in the slot, but the slot is not even half way to the middle width of the bar. I am not saying there is any problem with that; they all work great. And the bars are fully seated to the slots they engage in the handles. There are no gaps at any point between the handle and the back or blade.

The other saw is a Pax.
http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/flinn.htm
It has a folded sheet brass back. The blade is not anywhere near half way into the slot. Looking down into the end of the slot it appears the blade is in the slot about 1/4" to 5/16". There has been no problem with this. The blade back stops short of the end of the slot for it in the handle. There has been no problem with this.

A few photos.

By the way I had to straighten the two large LN back saws the same amount when I got them and it was nearly impossible to do. I had to really horse on them way more than I ever expected to effect a subtle yet necessary change.

Thanks Winton!! the LN is a very clean elegant look, I'd be thrilled with that. the pax on the other hand.... it bothers me, what can I say?
Interesting how the LN sits ALL the way in the slot, but the slot is only half way VS the slot being all the way but still sitting only half way.


How is the Pax saw BTW?

[Winton Applegate]

How is the Pax saw BTW?

Oh it's fine to use and beautiful to look at. I was noticing in my photo the blade looks thinner than the LN's.
I haven't been back to the shop to measure it. Well I was metal working this morning before I went to work but I didn't have even a second to stop and switch gears to look at the Pax.

I'm off Tue. so probably then.

From what David has taught us I think it is just fine as it is blade in slot wise.
And like yours it has a lot of weight from the massive brass back. A lot of high quality back saws that I have seen over the years on first rate blogs etc. have steel backs and are much lighter so I suppose the heavy brass isn't all that important and is more of a glam thing. I will take sharp and proper tooth geometry for the wood being worked over heavy ANY DAY ! But I like looking at my pretty saws too.

It is coming up time for me to get a "real" back saw. A Disston or other old guy. That will be a new adventure for me I am looking forward to. It is gratifying that I have so many great people here on Saw Mill to advise me when I get ready to find one. I would be lost otherwise trying to navigate all the chaff to find the wheat.