Member
While I consider any Eze-lap superior—longer lasting, better cutting/scratch pattern—to equally priced diamond stones, the best deal going right now is the 2 1/2" x 11 3/8" x 3/8" 600-grit stone for $56.14, model 121F, retail $74.95. This is a hefty stone with lots of real estate and 2 1/2" is plenty of width. I've had mine in constant use for almost 20 years.Originally Posted by David Weaver
διαίρει καὶ βασίλευε
Contributor
Patience with me please, I'm trying to keep up with this fascinating discussion. What do you use the Eze-lap for, David? Initial bevel?
Member
The 600-grit Eze-Lap is so versatile I use it for lots of things. If you were to have only one diamond stone, this would be it.
For everyday woodworking, after grinding the initial bevel on a 7" white wheel, I use the Eze-Lap before moving on, usually to 1µ (14,000-grit) diamond on a cast iron lap.
Last edited by David Barnett; 08-25-2014 at 8:37 AM.
διαίρει καὶ βασίλευε
[OP]
Member
Eze lap is for the initial bevel.
As George mentions in the parlance of this now 7 page discussion, the Eze-Lap is used to set the bevel and the brown & white Spyderco, super hard, ceramic stones are used to finish & polish the bevel.
David mentions, somewhere early in this conversation, that he prefers the 2" Spyderco stones and mentions selling off his 3" stones to buy 2" stones. I think this is because most plane blades will cover the entire surface while they are being sharpened, reducing irregularities like dishing in the surface. I have noticed this issue too. I also need sharpening devices I can take to larger green woodworking tools that are hard/impossible to move over large stationary stones. I found a double sided 2x6" Eze-Lap (600 & 1200), mounted in a plastic holder, containing an anti scratch pad for the work surface for $45.82. I think the holder ends could serve as handles when using it against larger tools. I jumped on it, hoping it will work well with the 2" Spydercos. I am trying out a Spyderco long fine file/slipstone, for curved surfaces, too.
Last edited by Mike Holbrook; 08-25-2014 at 9:23 AM.
Rereading the early post, David mentions something about Coors making ceramic sharpening devices.
I use to use ceramic water filters when our backpacking group had to have "fresh" water in remote areas. Pumping water through a ceramic filter removes just about anything, up to or maybe including viruses, as I recall. The issue with ceramic filters being the slow rate that water can be pumped through them and the difficulty of removing fine particles from the surface with a simple brush. Cloudy water tended to slow down the pumping rate fast. As I recall, when a filter got too slow to use one could trade it in on a "clean" filter. I believe "dirty" filters went back to the manufacturer for some process that removed the material blocking the pores so they could be used again.
I can see how such filters might serve Coors. It makes sense that Coors might have use for a very fine filter that could make "mountain water" safe & tasty to drink. Chemical treatment and undesirable particles will certainly alter the taste of water. If the Spyderco ceramic is made by Coors or similar to the Coors material then I imagine it has exceptionally fine particles in a very consistent matrix.
Last edited by Mike Holbrook; 08-25-2014 at 10:16 AM.
Guest
I should clarify that the division that makes the ceramics is called CoorsTek, as Pat mentioned. I remember hearing somewhere that they were a separate company, and wikipedia suggests that it's a company owned by the Coors family trust, separate from miller coors.
It appears that it had a pretty varied history, from products to ownership, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoorsTek
No clue what % of their business is from the various parts, but they make crucibles, alumina abrasive, ceramic armor, exhaust parts, ....
I'd imagine that their filters are for low volume work (wiki says micro medical or something), I don't think it would make much of a difference if they got the water for the coors beer directly from a pond!
The spydercos are extremely consistent, by the way. You likely won't be able to tell, though, because they don't release particles like most stones do.
It'll be interesting to see what folks think about them - my personal opinion is that it's critical to be a freehand sharpener and not expect them to remove much metal. People used to modern fast cutting japanese waterstones will probably get frustrated by them.
Member
Well, it looks like I can get them overhere in The Netherlands too!
http://www.knivesandtools.nl/nl/ct/s...lijpstenen.htm
Hmm, something to think about...
David, I think the issue with using spring, mountain or any surface water is even clear water often contains Giardia which can make people quite sick. Chemicals will kill Giardia and viruses but they change taste. I have used filtered well water for the last 17 years and I can't even stand the smell of "city" water now. City water, in my location, smells and tastes like chlorine. A common water filtration method is to treat water chemically then filter it through activated charcoal or even sand. I think ceramic is a finer filter than activated charcoal, which may eliminate the need for certain chemicals that might still be recognizable even after filtering through activated charcoal.
Any knowledge I have on this subject is limited to small backpacking pumps and home wells though. I think the point is, manufacturing ceramic to be a reusable, very fine water filter would certainly require a very fine matrix. If we could get someone at one of the Coors companies to reveal how they clean ceramic filters we might have a better idea how we could clean our stones.
My triangular, "white" Spyderco stones, after decades of use, are now dark gray but they still works quite well. So far all I have done is rinse them off occasionally. The corners of the triangle stones are designed to be used. I often use the corners as I often sharpen both serrated and regular knives. Spyderco suggests that the corners are more aggressive than the flat sides. I still find that the dark flat sides work on my kitchen knives though.
Last edited by Mike Holbrook; 08-25-2014 at 11:35 AM.
Guest
I figured they'd use activated charcoal, too. So I googled around and coors says that in a plant they built in virginia, they use a membrane system, but that most breweries (maybe theirs too?) use "fossilized plankton" on a wire mesh. I'd assume that's diatomaceous earth that they're talking about. Bizarre.
Our brewer here just used city water and filtered the chlorine out.
I can't find anything on the coorstek site that suggests using ceramic as a pass-through filter, rather they boast the use of their ceramic tubing as chemical resistant to transport fluids and chemicals in the filtration process (so it sounds like the ceramic is a conduit and not the filter).
It'd be interesting if anyone on here has worked in a large brewery and had any thoughts. Interesting topic.
Guest
They're expensive there!!
Guest
Haha water chemistry, a subject even more controversial and complicated than sharpening stones!
If you REALLY want to know you can get a copy of http://www.brewerspublications.com/b...e-for-brewers/ and then you'll not understand it just as well as the rest of us (that is to say its a fascinating read - if you're as much of a nerd about it as I am - and you'll feel more educated when you're done but don't expect to understand more about the issue).
The short version is if there is a water treatment process there is probably a brewery somewhere that is using it for some of their beers.
Contributor
It would likely add some flavor to their brew.I don't think it would make much of a difference if they got the water for the coors beer directly from a pond!
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Member
What is the effective "grit" of the brown stone? Where does it fall in say a range of diamond stones? I'm most familiar with the DMT line but I'm interested in the EZE-LAP as well.
Thanks,
ken
Guest
When it's brand new, it's more aggressive than any 1000 stone I've seen, but it doesn't stay that way for long - a characteristic of any stone that doesn't release particles. I'd consider it like a 2000-3000 grit waterstone, a middle stone. It's necessary before the white stone because once the white UF stone settles in, it doesn't cut fast enough to remove the scratches from a 1000 grit waterstone or diamond stone.
The only abrasive I've ever seen that's truly durable under hand use without shedding anything is diamonds (and then in that case, what binds them to things often isn't).
I don't personally like diamonds on carbon steels, it's just my preference, but there is no doubt that they have zero regard for anything that is in any type of tool or high speed steel. I have a HAP40 chisel that I got from stu tierney in some horse trading. That's the same thing as M4. It is the last thing you'd ever want to maintain without a grinder and if you had a solid chisel made out of it (as opposed to laminated), you wouldn't even like to grind it, it causes even friable grinder wheels to get burnished. BUT, an ezelap diamond hone raises a wire edge on it and cuts through ever bit of it like nothing. It makes you question whether or not the steel is even that tough...until you go use the chisel or try to sharpen it on anything else.
CBN is also harder than any carbide I can think of (vanadium carbides being the most problematic in stuff we use), but it's more expensive than diamonds and its virtues:
* gentler grooves than diamonds
* can tolerate high speed grinding without migrating away - diamonds cannot
Don't offer us anything as hand tool honers.
Anyway, for an all dry honing setup, a diamond hone, a spyderco medium (brown) and a UF or F makes a good setup. That said, I don't think the setup offers any benefit above an ezelap 600 followed by loose 1 micron diamonds (which is faster and just as fine feeling when you use it).
I guess I'm saying at this point the spydercos are a bit esoteric in the era of fine and FAST cutting cheap abrasives, but then again, I'm the guy using a washita stone...
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote