Why don't you use ceramic stones?

[Winton Applegate]

What have you to say about how the 120 mono. will end up ?

it will settle in to feeling more like double its grit rating once it's broken in, though.

Oh well there is always the 60 grit paper if I ever need to get crazy on some new blade backs.

[Mike Holbrook]

Interesting thread George. I have a Spyderco Triangle set, 2 medium and 2 fine that I have been using since probably the 80's maybe late 70's. I sharpen kitchen knives with them and I have been very pleased with how well they work with minor upkeep. A few strokes on a knife that is not too dull and I can slice roast or brisket just as thin as I want.

Are any of the stones Stu carries at TFJ (Tools From Japan) similar to the Spyderco's ? I have been looking for stones that I can carry to some of my green woodworking tools. Drawknives, axes, scorps and adzes nay not lend themselves to being sharpened on more conventional water stones. The 2x8" inch stones David mentions might work or maybe Spyderco slips.

[David Weaver]

What have you to say about how the 120 mono. will end up ?


Oh well there is always the 60 grit paper if I ever need to get crazy on some new blade backs.

I think it will end up with dull large diamonds or diamonds that leave the premises entirely, and the ones left will make a deep scratch pattern. I like Mono's of that size better when they're loose.

For heavy bevel work, I'd rather use crystolon. For flattening, either loose diamonds or fresh 3x paper.

[Harold Burrell]

They are easier to use, you'll never consume them and though george won't agree, I like the shapton pros better than the sypdercos. They are my favorite synthetic stone thus far....especially the 1k and 12/15k.

Wait a minute...

"Never consume them"??? Are you speaking in relative terms here, like..."Yeah, well 'never' as in 10 or 15 years..."

Or "never", as in...well...never?

And are we even talking about the same stones? These? http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/...th=335_404_402

[David Weaver]

Yeah, those. It's possible you could consume one with decades of heavy use, I guess. In 5 years worth of hobbyist use, I used about a mm (out of 15) off of the 1k.

[Harold Burrell]

I'm actually quite interested in the spyderco's. Because...

1. My shop is not heated in the winter. Working with waterstones becomes kind of a problem when it's 10°.
2. I like the idea of not having to flatten them...as well as them lasting forever.
3. I want to be like George.







(If the truth be known...I also want to be like David. Just without the belly.)

[David Barnett]

What have you to say about how the 120 mono. will end up ?

Moreso with diamond plates than other bench stones, for flattening blades or establishing bevels, I'd start with the least coarse grit that will get the job done and do more work at that grit using less pressure than you might suppose necessary especially when the hone is new, leaving a smoother and shallower scratch pattern in less time. For plane soles and so on, lapping with SiC on cast iron or coarser abrasive papers or films is efficient enough, in my experience.

120 or 150 for monocrystalline is pretty coarse for blade work and will take extra effort at finer grits to mitigate the deeper troughs. Also, in my experience, while the mono hones will settle in their aggressiveness, the rate and quality of cut my disappoint as the hone wears, where the polycrystalline will settle to a level with acceptable speed and satisfying qualities in scratch patterns, feel and longevity. I find that diamond plates really come into their own at around 400 to 600 grit, although 240 and 320 can be useful at times.

Like David Weaver, at coarser grits I prefer loose diamond, as well.

Oh well there is always the 60 grit paper if I ever need to get crazy on some new blade backs.

A not altogether bad option, although I prefer the speed and resulting flatness of lapping.

[David Weaver]

Just without the belly.)

"What's goin on here Mr. Lahey!?"

[Matthew N. Masail]

Thanks David (-: that is most informative. Goes without saying that I will have to try them, so let's get real for a second: I read reviews on Amazon, 1 guy said its great but it was a nightmare to get flat with his extra coarse dmt. Almost every other review mentioned flatness issues so someone buying them for tools needs a game plane to get them flat. I have a 400 grit atoma, that's not too fast on the gokomyo... So what can one realistically expect? To be שא it for two days? I ask this honestly for anyone interested, I for sure will report the flattening of the stones.

[Robert LaPlaca]

Wait a minute...

"Never consume them"??? Are you speaking in relative terms here, like..."Yeah, well 'never' as in 10 or 15 years..."

Or "never", as in...well...never?

And are we even talking about the same stones? These? http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/...th=335_404_402

I have a set of Pro Shaptons 1k/5k/8k that I bought 15 years ago from Harrison Stanley. I would say I got about another 15-25 years left in them, assuming that I don't drop them on the floor first. Best money I ever spent on a woodworking tool..

[David Weaver]

Thanks David (-: that is most informative. Goes without saying that I will have to try them, so let's get real for a second: I read reviews on Amazon, 1 guy said its great but it was a nightmare to get flat with his extra coarse dmt. Almost every other review mentioned flatness issues so someone buying them for tools needs a game plane to get them flat. I have a 400 grit atoma, that's not too fast on the gokomyo... So what can one realistically expect? To be it for two days? I ask this honestly for anyone interested, I for sure will report the flattening of the stones.

I spent about a half hour on the 8x3, but I used the stone *dry* and the atoma *dry* and broomed the ceramic off of it as i needed to. I never got the F, just the UF. If there was a significant amount of material to remove on the stones, they'd be trouble because diamonds are it - you can't use al-ox paper, it just burnishes off the abrasive.

I haven't tried loose diamonds, but that's where I'd go if I had one really out of flat - 100 grit loose diamonds.

I'm thinking about getting the 8x2 and unloading the 8x3 since the 8x3 isn't something I use (I don't use a honing guide). If I get an 8x2, i'll get UF just to avoid the chance of getting a stone with deep milling marks.

[Harold Burrell]

I'm thinking about getting the 8x2 and unloading the 8x3...

Hey there, ol' buddy ol' pal...

I'm thinking that that stone would look good sitting next to my/your LV BU Jack.



(And with a sweet enuff deal, I may even take back what I said about your belly.)

[Matthew N. Masail]

I wonder how these compare http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/...35_404_620_623

[David Weaver]

Hey there, ol' buddy ol' pal...

I'm thinking that that stone would look good sitting next to my/your LV BU Jack.

(And with a sweet enuff deal, I may even take back what I said about your belly.)

I'll send you a PM. I think I could almost throw it far enough for it to get there.

[David Weaver]

I wonder how these compare http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/...35_404_620_623

Never used one, but they look like a harder version of the stones we are used to seeing as modern "ceramic" stones (which have resin binders or something similar). not quite the same thing as a ceramic stone that actually has a ceramic binder (the spydercos being the only one of those that I'm aware of).

Stu could clarify, though. He's probably busy. I could ask him if someone really wants to know, since he and I are on constant peeing contest terms.