Hide glue and fuming

[Christopher Charles]

Hello all,

Just finishing up an arts and crafts sofa table for a friend that I'll get posted in Projects in the next couple of days.

I decided to finish by traditional fuming and after experimenting with the garden variety cleaning strength ammonia (~5%), decided to go nuclear with 26%. Initial experiments with the 5% were promising after 24hrs with a test board in a plastic shoe box, shown here with a coat of BLO and 2 coats garnet shellac.
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However, the 5% ammonia did nada in the larger fuming tent that I cobbled together:

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[Note that i found a great new use for dog holes--holding the compressed air nozzle at the end of the red hose that i used to clean off the dust prior to fuming ]

For anyone interested in trying the 26% ammonia, follow the advice that I did-- use all the appropriate safety gear and do outside if possible (I have a double car garage door that was open, with an additional window open, and was able to fume while only being in the garage for less than 30 seconds to place and remove the tub. Nonetheless, i wore a full face mask, respirator and gloves. And the tiny whiffs i got were beyond anything from the cleaning ammonia...)

After three hours, my extra test leg had a sickly grey cast that looked to be the right tone, shown with the unfinished table top, a coat of shellac only and a coat of BLO followed by shellac from left to right.

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The finish came out great, with a minor exception. I used old brown glue for all the glue ups and was careful to wipe off the excess with water. But, being hide glue, I didn't go completely OCD (as usual with yellow glue) and discovered that any excess creates a film that the gaseous ammonia does not penetrate. Nothing disastrous and not noticeable unless pointed out on the exterior of the piece. Did not (and will not) take pictures of the evidence

I offer my experience here as a word of caution to the Neander hide glue fans as I did not come across the issue during my research prior to fuming.

Overall, I found the fuming to be a great approach and provided a great tone after a finishing schedule of
-one coat BLO
-two coats garnet shellac
-one coat dark briwax
-one coat clear briwax

Cheers,
Chris C.

[Dave Beauchesne]

Chris:

Thanks for the writeup.

I am a Refrigeration Mechanic and have rebuilt several ammonia compressors / serviced ammonia systems. Those systems use 100% ammonia: it really gets your attention!

Thanks again.

[Christopher Charles]

Yikes! save some and you could have four times the fuming fun!

And thanks, glad you enjoyed the write up.

Cheers
C

[Jim Koepke]

I used to work with ammonia on large blue print machines. That is nasty stuff.

We used to keep some orange juice (Tang) handy in case we got "the vapors."

jtk

[Winton Applegate]

Thanks for the post !
That was a good one.

That's it . . . from now on the heck with glue . . . I'm going back to using nothing but nails to put stuff together.

Just kidding

[Tom Vanzant]

Jim, many years with Ozalid (blue line) printers. IIRC, we used 51% ammonia. Refilling the machine was always eye-watering, but one day, the open gallon jug was dropped! Instant evacuation of the area...luckily no one suffered more than a good cry. The vinyl floor...not so lucky!

[Christopher Charles]

Yikes! I actually used a swim mask when doing the fuming to keep the fumes out of my eyes....

C

[Frank Strazza]

Thanks for the write up, especially the tip on the hide glue. I was fixing to fume 10 chairs but I am having second thoughts because of your findings with the hide glue. Its easy enough to take off the glue if you find it after you oil it but a little more of a problem if the whole thing is fumed!

I am still undecided.... I am worried about glue around the tenon rungs.

One good thing, the fuming should all be consistent color because all the wood was obtained from the same log.

So now I have to think about this one........ Yeah or Nay? To fume or not to fume....

[Christopher Charles]

Hello Frank,

I wouldn't hesitate to fume, especially given the number of chairs involved. Most of the joints on the table
came out fine, there were just a couple i didn't get wiped off as well and again the effect was pretty subtle. I would definitely recommend doing a coupke of tests on scrap, perhaps some with test joints cleaned off the same way you treated the chairs?

Good luck and look forward to seeing the finished chairs

C

[Christopher Charles]

Hello all,

Thanks again for the feedback and here's a link to the glamour shots:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...29#post2306229

Cheers,
C