Do you tip on carry out food?

[Pat Barry]

That must be the "new math" I keep hearing about. The customers are already paying for the food and the wages. I'm not changing anything in the equation. What's the difference in a customer paying $50 for a family, then $7.50 in tip, and paying $57.50 for the meal with no tip? It's the exact same out of pocket expense to the customer. In that example, the bill was for 4 people, so the food price would go up, on average $1.87 each person. I'd pay $1.87 more to eat at a place that held their staff accountable for their actions rather than making me, the customer, responsible for deciding whether their employee did a good job or not. Keep in mind, the price isn't actually "going up" based on what you're spending anyway. It's just shifting the responsibility of managing the employees back to the company rather than the customers.

This could work at a place without much competition or if they ALL did this I suppose, but if I'm a waiter and can get big tips elsewhere, then that's where I would be, so I would think the lesser motivated waiters would gravitate toward the sure thing of an extra few bucks an hour. Also, I suspect the tax advantages for the business need to be accounted for in this. I bet the result of the tipping process is beneficial to the business's bottom line and that's why they haven't changed it.

Perhaps I'm missing something obvious here ..... why should it be the customers responsibility to supplement the restaurants payroll to assist them staying in business?

This argument makes no sense - Either way, the customers are paying. It is the role of the customers to keep them in business! Without customers they are done

[David Weaver]

Implementation wouldn't be quite so easy - that $7.50 would be absorbed partially by some restaurant owners, who would see it as an opportunity to limit wait staff a little bit more. Customers would see it as an option taken away (people always like choice, even if they spend the same), and it would present big problems on slow days at a restaurant because it would put the tip risk back on the owner.

The owner would probably also be responsible for more social security wages, medicare wages, more unemployment compensation, and the servers would have less incentive to try to do their best for each tip.

If it worked well, restaurants would already be doing it.

[Scott Shepherd]

it would present big problems on slow days at a restaurant because it would put the tip risk back on the owner.

Gee, let's make the business owner responsible for their business. That's a novel concept. I think businesses don't do it, not because it doesn't work, but because they don't need to. If they can continue to pay people $2.00 per hour, why wouldn't they?

As for it making no sense, it makes a lot of sense. It's not my responsibility as your customer to make sure your employees get a paid. That's you job, as the owner. If I don't tip, your employees make $2.00 per hour, so yes, that does make me responsible for managing YOUR employees.

[Pat Barry]

As for it making no sense, it makes a lot of sense. It's not my responsibility as your customer to make sure your employees get a paid. That's you job, as the owner. If I don't tip, your employees make $2.00 per hour, so yes, that does make me responsible for managing YOUR employees.

What I meant by making no sense is that if people are getting $2 per hour and no tips they won't be working there very long, therefore the business will need to increase the incetive for the employees by raising the wages and therefore the price they charge. There is no free lunch. Either way you work it the customer pays. If you are tipping, then the customer at least has some real-time say in the process.

[David Weaver]

Gee, let's make the business owner responsible for their business. That's a novel concept. I think businesses don't do it, not because it doesn't work, but because they don't need to. If they can continue to pay people $2.00 per hour, why wouldn't they?

As for it making no sense, it makes a lot of sense. It's not my responsibility as your customer to make sure your employees get a paid. That's you job, as the owner. If I don't tip, your employees make $2.00 per hour, so yes, that does make me responsible for managing YOUR employees.

If you don't tip, the next person does. Nobody makes 2.00 an hour. You as the customer just have flexibility in determining how good your service was, and not obligation to pay in full for a bad server. In most states, if the tip-paid employee doesn't get to the full minimum wage, the restaurant owner is responsible and you have the freedom to do whatever you want as a customer.

One fundamental thing is almost always true, that if something is a good idea in practice, it will be done. I can't imagine this hasn't been tried before, which makes it a simple issue. If it was a good idea, it's what would be in practice already, and more common than tip-compensated service.

[Scott Shepherd]

If you don't tip, the next person does. Nobody makes 2.00 an hour. You as the customer just have flexibility in determining how good your service was, and not obligation to pay in full for a bad server. In most states, if the tip-paid employee doesn't get to the full minimum wage, the restaurant owner is responsible and you have the freedom to do whatever you want as a customer.

One fundamental thing is almost always true, that if something is a good idea in practice, it will be done. I can't imagine this hasn't been tried before, which makes it a simple issue. If it was a good idea, it's what would be in practice already, and more common than tip-compensated service.

How's it my job to police your employees behavior? It doesn't raise the cost of the food one single penny to do this. The customer would pay the exact same thing. In fact, probably less.

It's not done because it's a bad idea, it's not done because then it's a fixed payroll and the business can't schlep off their losses on the backs of their employees, the one's that can least afford it. It so many cases, the servers are barely making it, while the owner is driving around in their BMW.

Like I said earlier, if the employer decides they want to spend zero dollars in marketing and do nothing to try and get business in the door, who suffers? The servers. So the people that had no input into it, are the ones that suffer. I just don't think that's right. I'd rather have people that know they will make decent money when they walk in the door. They'd also know if they didn't treat the customers like gold, they'd be back at the competition making $2.00 per hour plus tips.

[David Weaver]

How's it my job to police your employees behavior? It doesn't raise the cost of the food one single penny to do this. The customer would pay the exact same thing. In fact, probably less.

It's not done because it's a bad idea, it's not done because then it's a fixed payroll and the business can't schlep off their losses on the backs of their employees, the one's that can least afford it. It so many cases, the servers are barely making it, while the owner is driving around in their BMW.

Like I said earlier, if the employer decides they want to spend zero dollars in marketing and do nothing to try and get business in the door, who suffers? The servers. So the people that had no input into it, are the ones that suffer. I just don't think that's right. I'd rather have people that know they will make decent money when they walk in the door. They'd also know if they didn't treat the customers like gold, they'd be back at the competition making $2.00 per hour plus tips.

How many restaurant owners do you know? I've known a few, and some are tough on their employees, but most are looking to get by (and are good to their employees - especially if they aren't some sort of chain or franchise environment), or are in the process of going out of business. Framing it as if the restaurant owners are sitting on a large pile of cash dealing bad business moves that are held only by the backs of their servers isn't accurate.

I stand by my comment that your idea is idealism. All you have to do is show me a large group of restaurants doing what you're suggesting. There seems to be no shortage of servers around here, and at the restaurants I've worked at, the servers were the highest paid people in the restaurant, and the first to leave. At close they vacuumed the carpets and wrapped some silverware for the next day and left. If you want to find people working for very little in a restaurant, look to the short order cooks and the dishwashers. How much experience did you have working in or owning restaurants in the last 25 years?

[Scott Shepherd]

All you have to do is show me a large group of restaurants doing what you're suggesting.

Why would they? They'd getting people to work for them, essentially for zero cost out of their pocket. Why in the world would you expect someone to put people on the payroll when they can keep them off the payroll? That's exactly my point.

I have zero experience running a restaurant, but from the things I've seen in many restaurants over my lifetime, there's no doubt why many of them go out of business. Not because they can't make it because of paying wages, but because they can't run a business because they are clueless. I don't think you have to worry about it, I have no intention of opening a restaurant. If I did, it would be a tip free zone and the wait staff would be paid quite well. That model works for every other business type out there. I find it hard to believe that the food business is this magical, special, can't be run like a normal business kind of place.

[Chuck Wintle]

Do you tip at McDonald's?

i would never tip at mcdonalds or any other fast food place. When its not served to your table or brought to your front door, then IMHO, then no tip is necessary.

[Pat Barry]

Why would they? They'd getting people to work for them, essentially for zero cost out of their pocket. Why in the world would you expect someone to put people on the payroll when they can keep them off the payroll? That's exactly my point.

I have zero experience running a restaurant, but from the things I've seen in many restaurants over my lifetime, there's no doubt why many of them go out of business. Not because they can't make it because of paying wages, but because they can't run a business because they are clueless. I don't think you have to worry about it, I have no intention of opening a restaurant. If I did, it would be a tip free zone and the wait staff would be paid quite well. That model works for every other business type out there. I find it hard to believe that the food business is this magical, special, can't be run like a normal business kind of place.

It would be great if everyone was paid for their performance and incentivized to do better, like getting a commission for example, or bonus's for individual or group performance. That motivates people to do better. Wait staff have this going for them and in the end for us customers it provides a better service because of the incentive. Take it away and you can be assured of a reduction in service quality.

[Brian Elfert]

Why would they? They'd getting people to work for them, essentially for zero cost out of their pocket. Why in the world would you expect someone to put people on the payroll when they can keep them off the payroll? That's exactly my point.

I have zero experience running a restaurant, but from the things I've seen in many restaurants over my lifetime, there's no doubt why many of them go out of business. Not because they can't make it because of paying wages, but because they can't run a business because they are clueless. I don't think you have to worry about it, I have no intention of opening a restaurant. If I did, it would be a tip free zone and the wait staff would be paid quite well. That model works for every other business type out there. I find it hard to believe that the food business is this magical, special, can't be run like a normal business kind of place.

You would be bucking the norm of the last 50 to 100 years. I suspect we would be reading about your bankruptcy filing after the first year or two. People are going to see your high prices and naturally assume the cost will be about 25% more with tax and tip. A lot of people won't notice that your servers don't take tips. How much will you pay your servers: The $8 an hour they make on a bad night, or the $20+ an hour they make on a good night? The best servers are going to gravitate to the places where they can make $20+ an hour in tips.

Regardless if one thinks tipping is good or bad it will be hard to change current convention. A friend of mine refuses to tip even though he can easily afford the tip. If he dines with others someone else inevitably ends up paying the tip.

[Howard Garner]

One thing nobody has mention is the the owner is responsible for making sure the wait staff earns at least the minimum wage.
Employees are required to report tips, if tips plus base to not make minimum wage, the owner is required to make the difference.
Now the questions is, how many report ALL their tips, or just enough to cover the minimum?

[David Weaver]

I mentioned that above. Having worked in a lot of restaurants through high school and college, I sat in the break room and listened to the servers (and saw them pull out their wads) talking about how much they might report, or might not. The min wage sheet in my state (that has to be hung in a prominent place - it's always been in the break room everywhere I've worked) made it clear right on the sheet that the employer has to cover the difference between tip and minimum wage if there is a discrepancy.

In every restaurant I've worked, that took tips at least, the servers were the highest paid workers in the restaurant (I've never worked at a place that had a chef - I'd imagine some lead chefs could do better). It used to drive me up the wall when I was in high school that my GF was working as a server making $20 an hour in tips back then (in the 90s - that was her average rate for a given day - I lived in a tourist area and there was always a lot of traffic, weekday or not) and I was making $4.75 an hour, but I had to pay for everything on dates. I hope that's changed!!! Our local restaurants were very sexist about wait staff.

I later worked in a cabinet factory, and they were also very sexist about how they split up the job assignments.

[Scott Shepherd]

You would be bucking the norm of the last 50 to 100 years.

You're right. Let's not try anything new. We'll just always do what we've always done and live with it. Because if it's always been done that way, it must be right, right?

[Duane Meadows]

You're right. Let's not try anything new. We'll just always do what we've always done and live with it. Because if it's always been done that way, it must be right, right?

If it works, why not! Change for change sake isn't usually a good thing.