$20 cast iron lap for 1µ diamond

[David Weaver]

If you're right handed, diagonally from upper left to lower right is the way I'd run them.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Ill do that, thanks! (I will probably also get some small dual stones and a eze lap, that's about my monthly budget right now)

[Tony Zaffuto]

I may pick up one of those cheap anvils, thinking something in the 25 or 55 pound size, for an experiment. Basically, my thoughts are to pack the striking face in something similar to a Casenite but leaving the base uncovered, and put into a batch heat treat furnace I have. I have quizzed my metallurgical engineer about taking a casting, such as a HF anvil and putting hardness into the face, such as what you would get from a forging and his first impression is that additional hardness can be put into the anvil. But he also added it would help to then store the anvil outside in the weather for a year or so, sort of like casting processes of old.

Anyone here have thoughts to add to this?

[David Barnett]

Basically, my thoughts are to pack the striking face in something similar to a Casenite but leaving the base uncovered, and put into a batch heat treat furnace I have. I have quizzed my metallurgical engineer about taking a casting, such as a HF anvil and putting hardness into the face, such as what you would get from a forging and his first impression is that additional hardness can be put into the anvil. But he also added it would help to then store the anvil outside in the weather for a year or so, sort of like casting processes of old.

Tony, if you don't have an atmosphere controlled furnace and a way to isolate your hardening compound from the body of the anvil, you might have a problem getting the case just on the face. Also, hardening compounds aren't cheap nowadays. Brownell's is $22 per pound and Cherry Red is $5 to $10 more—Kasenit is cheaper at about $150 for ten pounds—so I'm not sure it would be cost-effective. Two other issues might be the depth of case over the soft substrate—how well it could withstand concentrated hammer blows—and quenching cast iron. If it survives, seasoning for a year or so couldn't hurt but I'm not so certain it'd help that much avoiding cracks through use.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Tony, if you don't have an atmosphere controlled furnace and a way to isolate your hardening compound from the body of the anvil, you might have a problem getting the case just on the face. Also, hardening compounds aren't cheap nowadays. Brownell's is $22 per pound and Cherry Red is $5 to $10 more—Kasenit is cheaper at about $150 for ten pounds—so I'm not sure it would be cost-effective. Two other issues might be the depth of case over the soft substrate—how well it could withstand concentrated hammer blows—and quenching cast iron. If it survives, seasoning for a year or so couldn't hurt but I'm not so certain it'd help that much avoiding cracks through use.

I'm well covered in all aspects David (I own a powder metal parts manufacturing plant, with complete in-house machine shop and in house tool making). In the tool making portion, I have a small batch oven that is atmosphere controlled.

I am concerned about the depth of case hardening over the softer casting. Funny thing is, I would probably spend far more to try to make a substandard HF anvil perform like a vintage forged anvil!

[David Weaver]

Tony, the anvils have to be coming out of the woodwork up there. I made an attempt to find an anvil only once around here, and it took about two weeks, IIRC, for me to find a nice 125 pound farriers anvil that had a clean fresh top surface. I paid a fair share for it ($325), but it was just what I was looking for and no significant wear.

I think a good anvil is money in suspense these days, as nothing comparable to a soderfors type anvil is made now for any reasonable price.

[David Barnett]

I'm well covered in all aspects David (I own a powder metal parts manufacturing plant, with complete in-house machine shop and in house tool making). In the tool making portion, I have a small batch oven that is atmosphere controlled.

Oh, you do have all the toys. Sounds like you could manage it and maybe make it work.

I am concerned about the depth of case hardening over the softer casting. Funny thing is, I would probably spend far more to try to make a substandard HF anvil perform like a vintage forged anvil!

Yeah, just don't know how deep or tough the case would be but I'd say take a shot at it. I'm all for pushing the bounds of my own knowledge even when success is less than assured. Sometimes I get lucky—more often not—but it's fun and I invariably learn something.

[David Barnett]

I made an attempt to find an anvil only once around here, and it took about two weeks, IIRC, for me to find a nice 125 pound farriers anvil that had a clean fresh top surface. I paid a fair share for it ($325), but it was just what I was looking for and no significant wear.

That's a good price nowadays, especially if you don't have to put significant work into it. I got my Trenton for less than that but it was nearly twenty years ago. Besides the great price and condition, Sandy Moss was kind enough to deliver it right to my shop when he was visiting relations in Northampton.

Not a Söderfors, but in that medium weight range I've always coveted a cute little low-profile Nimba Titan, although that's an unlikely luxury these days.

allanvils.jpg

[Tony Zaffuto]

I've seen more than a few, but the going price is around $3.00/pound! Next weekend is the Nittany Tractor Show and huge flea market in Centre Hall, PA (near State College, PA). Always done well at this flea market and being agrarian in nature, farm implements abound, including hand cranked grinders, anvils, all other sorts of blacksmithing stuff, and typical hand tools.

Biggest issue is carrying what you buy! Several years ago, I made the mistake of buying a 1948 Motor Manual and other publications including a later Chiltons, for info for my 1948 Chevy. Purchase was made right at the beginning of my stroll through the flea market and after about an hour, I was ready to give away my treasures!

Anyhow, I digressed! I would just like to find a reason to justify the existence of these cast anvils, and if they could be re-engineered into something useable, that would be great. Maybe a closet business could be built around repurposing HF tools into gems!

To those of you who play around (or are serious) about jewelry type work, PM me and I'll send off some powdered metals for you to play with.

[David Weaver]

I think I remember tony saying he's got 4 anvils or something. I coveted lots of anvils, but took the first medium weight one I could find with a flat back and not too much damage. I've hammered more saws straight on it than anything else.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachme...7&d=1288966894

Not fantastic, but not horrible. I couldn't gauge how good the new manufacture farriers anvils were, but they were the only new types that didn't cost the moon.

[David Barnett]

Anyhow, I digressed! I would just like to find a reason to justify the existence of these cast anvils, and if they could be re-engineered into something useable, that would be great. Maybe a closet business could be built around repurposing HF tools into gems!

To those of you who play around (or are serious) about jewelry type work, PM me and I'll send off some powdered metals for you to play with.

Even when I lived in Massachusetts, not once did I ever make it to a tool sale like that and now that I'm back in Florida, well... not so many old tools, but I've been fortunate to get great tools from Patrick Leach, Sandy Moss, et al—jeweler's tools, silversmithing stakes, anvils, and so on—at amazing prices considering they've done all the work. One little American-made anvil that Patrick threw in with the stakes has become my very favorite for light metalsmithing and jewelry work.

You know, the newer cast iron American-made anvils Rio Grande and Otto Frei sell are kind of pricey at around $200 for a 35 pounder but the faces are harder at 45 to 50 HRC, better finished and sturdier than the cheap imports. If you find a way to ruggedize and upgrade the HF or Grizzly anvils, you might have something. There's a lot of price space between the import vs. USA cast iron anvils.

[David Barnett]

Not fantastic, but not horrible. I couldn't gauge how good the new manufacture farriers anvils were, but they were the only new types that didn't cost the moon.

Oooh, that's a nice enough anvil, all right. Sleek lines and plenty of horn. Looks pristine to my eye. That's a winner—you could have easily paid more for it—and a perfect weight for most work.

I lightly ground the face and upper horn on mine then polished it to a high shine as I do more cold work and planishing on mine than hot forging. It's an 'indoor' anvil so stays that way on its heavy walnut base near my jeweler's bench. A large magnet keeps the ring somewhat polite and bearable but I always wear hearing protection. I have several anvils for lighter work down to a little 1 pound double bick but nothing in the 75 to 125 pound range. Love my stakes, swages and forming blocks, too, but anvils get place of honor.

[David Weaver]

I've seen more than a few, but the going price is around $3.00/pound!

Looks like I was a little too slow!!

$3 a pound was the going rate down here when I got mine, for a quality anvil. there were a lot of newer hardened surface cast iron or ductile iron anvils, but I wanted one that had a welded spring temper steel plate on the top surface - well if I had a choice.

I would've been willing to pay a little more than I did for one that was absolutely perfect, but was looking for something 175 or under so that I could lift it (a 125 pound anvil is the easiest 125 pounds you'll ever lift).

[David Weaver]

Oooh, that's a nice enough anvil, all right. Sleek lines and plenty of horn. Looks pristine to my eye. That's a winner—you could have easily paid more for it—and a perfect weight for most work.

I lightly ground the face and upper horn on mine then polished it to a high shine as I do more cold work and planishing on mine than hot forging. It's an 'indoor' anvil so stays that way on its heavy walnut base near my jeweler's bench. A large magnet keeps the ring somewhat polite and bearable but I always wear hearing protection. I have several anvils for lighter work down to a little 1 pound double bick but nothing in the 75 to 125 pound range. Love my stakes, swages and forming blocks, too, but anvils get place of honor.

Little brown, but that was easy enough to fix since none of the brown was pitting - it's no longer brown. I filed the surface to remove a couple of burrs and cleaned it off (via lapping) I don't do much with an anvil, but when you need an anvil, it's hard to substitute much else for it. I just don't want anything that would mark a saw or an infill plane, but it doesn't have to be nearly as nice as you'll need for the surface for the kind of work you do.

Mine is an indoor queen, too. No hot work on it. It is *so* nice to have to straighten saws, though.

$3 a pound seemed to be the price for everything here, or just a little less, pitted and broken down corners with a lot of sway, or anvils that were almost pristine. There was some guy just south of harmar (i know you know the area) who was bringing 3 a week to his apartment (that's his truck) and selling them to make a little bit of college income. He said he had 60 and his dad had several hundred.

[David Barnett]

I believe you David. I know almost nothing about anvils and still feel stupid about when I could but a nice old small one, perfect for my shop, for almost nothing. I make do with a piece of 4 cm thick mild steel.

Kees, that's a fair chunk of steel and should work fine for most anything around the shop. If you were doing a lot of hot forging and forming you'd likely want a steel-faced anvil, but for straightening saws and lots of other tasks you only need a tough and fairly flat surface.

Although I do most raising and forming on stakes, I do gentle flats and curves on the anvil because of the convenient range of shapes it offers. More importantly, though, I want a steel-faced anvil, even if it's a small one, for making tools—repousse and chasing punches, small knives, stone carving tools, and so on. Although one can make small tools with a hardened jeweler's steel bench block, I still prefer having more mass under the hammer for better edge consolidation and faster forming on hot work.

A lot or bladesmiths are content with and do good work on a plain but hefty block of steel.