Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 38

Thread: Jointer question for the transitional neanderthal

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Apex, NC
    Posts
    549

    Jointer question for the transitional neanderthal

    Okay, I admit it - I'm actually a transitional neanderthal, what with having a complement of power tools alongside my ATC full of hand tools. I enjoy the hand tools, but I'm slow with them, and sometimes it's not fun to use them when the old neck injury is acting up (pressure on nerves = pain + loss of strength...story for another time). I am intending to continue my neander self-training, but I'm not 100% neander yet.

    Anyway, I'm settling into a new workshop, and this one is much smaller than the last. Plus, there's no 220V, so the jointer's gotta go. I'm trying to decide whether to replace it [and deal with space issues, dust collection, etc.] or to go neander completely cold turkey, and I thought I'd ask others how they've made the transition. Now, this isn't meant to ferret other secret transitional neanders out of the woodwork, so feel free to PM if you've a reputation to uphold, but I'd really like the advice of this group. Has anyone else made this decision? How did it work out? I'm a bit frightened that I might sell the jointer, give the money to Rob Lee, and then discover that I actually do need a (powered) jointer to keep working...


    daniel
    Not all chemicals are bad. Without hydrogen or oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Burlington, Vermont
    Posts
    2,443
    I'm neander out of necessity rather than pride or purity, and have little power tool experience. That said, I wouldn't throw out a pricey, good power tool even if I couldn't use it, until I was sure I didn't need it. You can get a great jointer plane for a decent price if you go vintage.

    But do you have a planer that you can still use in the new shop? You can easily and quickly get a board flat enough to run through a planer without too much fuss and muss, and then flip it to clean up the hand worked side. It doesn't need to be perfect, which cuts down on the effort required.

    I actually enjoy surfacing lumber by hand, but there's something to be said for having assistance when you can get it.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Wild Wild West USA
    Posts
    1,542
    Plus, there's no 220V, so the jointer's gotta go.
    Piece of cake !

    First off you won't need a power jointer. Unless we are talking for flattening the first / reference face of the board as well. I find planing those a pleasure but a lot of work. I don't have a power jointer or power planer. I also have no serious physical injuries. (come on guys he is talking skeletal not cranial ).

    You can always buy a smaller power jointer as you said if the face planing doesn't work out. Or a power hand held planer and then finish plane by hand.

    Speaking strictly about jointing now I don't even find a jointer plane essential HOWEVER I do say a high quality REAL straight edge is indispensable. You will need that for other work once you get the planks too big to run through a jointer or power planer anyway. See photo of straight edge.

    I find edge jointing interesting and fun. Even joints on the order of five to eight feet. And with practice and care they can come out BETTER than power jointed. See the definition of the " rubbed joint".

    NOW . . . you can cheat. See photo of clothes washer and electrical dryer plug socket in the wall. (I am experimenting with an orange flash light I have. long story. )

    [what ? ? ? You don't keep an angle grinder next to your cloths washing machine to get out those "tough" stains ?]

    There is a corresponding "extension cord" behind one of my work benches at my home work shop. Put two and two together, as it were, and viola . . . one minute your work shop does not have 220 and the next minute it does.

    Or you can have your shop wired. Can be a huge project if your shop is a detached building. I ran that same "extension cord" from my basement, long ago at another house , across the back yard to the one car detached garage so I could run my TIG welder.

    Hey . . . an obsessed shop rat has got to do what an obsessed shop rat has got to do.
    Am I right ? Am I right ?
    You bet !
    (PS: I priced flexible conductor cord off the role to make up my extension cord and also looked into a second meter and all that to run the rental shop. Back in the day. Well . . . plan on selling that second car or your first born to pay for one of those options.

    I wound up buying this cable off the roll that is specked for under ground buried cable duty. A bit stiff but has done the job.
    If electricity is one of your studied subjects then go for it.
    If not . . . don't even think about it. Get a pro and pay the nut.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Winton Applegate; 08-27-2014 at 1:35 AM.
    Sharpening is Facetating.
    Good enough is good enough
    But
    Better is Better.

  4. #4
    I don't have a jointer, but do have a thickness planer, a bandsaw and small ts. I use power tools on projects that I don't like that much, but I haven't missed the jointer at all. I'd hate to give up a bandsaw and thickness planer for "commodity" work, though.

  5. #5
    I had a 6" jointer that I struggled with. It was touchy to adjust and re-setting the knives after sharpening could take a couple of hours. It was short enough that I couldn't joint large boards and keep them flat on the infeed table. I bought an old Stanley #7 to joint long boards so I could bring the tool to the work instead of the work to the tool. Didn't take long to learn that I could joint boards by hand better than with the jointer.

    Since my jointer was only 6" wide, it often wasn't useful for flattening the 1st face of a board, so I learned how to flatten with a jack plane before running a board through the planer.

    Wasn't long before the jointer was just gathering dust and being in my way, so I gave it to my brother and haven't ever missed it.

    The key thing to hand planing is having a decent bench with some means to hold your board while you plane it. Before I built my bench, I was clamping boards to my table saw to plane them, which was an exercise in frustration. After I had a bench, planing became much easier and enjoyable.

  6. #6
    I'm not a purist, but I don't use a jointer. I think it's the easiest power tool to do without, because jointing by hand is a moderately skilled operation that doesn't take long and doesn't involve a lot of grunt work. Giving up a thickness planer is a bigger committment.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Silicon Valley, CA
    Posts
    989
    Before you sell your jointer, I recommend getting a used #5, putting significant camber on the blade and using that to flatten. This is what you want to use for initial flattening -- not a #7.
    As others have suggested, you can go from there to a powered planer.

    For your neck issues -- I'd recommend paying a lot of attention to your work positions, and particularly the height of each workstation. (i.e., the knuckle-height workbench often suggested for planing isn't as comfortable for chopping out dovetails)

    Matt

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Enchanted land of beer, cheese & brats
    Posts
    1,314
    Not knowing the extent of your injury....

    The jointer is the one machine I don't miss at all. Big ones, at least 12", are rather expensive, take up lots of room, are heavy, noisy and often with large power requirements. The task of hand flatting/thicknessing is physically tasking, no doubt about it, especially with harder woods- you'll not enjoy working hard maple as much as cherry. Perhaps a lunch box planner might be in your future- one might be in mine, too. These aren't too heavy, run off of 120v @ 15 amps (your average household outlet), are really loud, but might allow you to continue enjoying woodworking. And I've heard of folks making sleds to face joint with a planer.

    Edge jointing by hand takes a little finesse, but once you get it you'll enjoy it and its not physical tasking. You could make or buy a jointer fence to help you get there, I kinda think of one as training wheels.

    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...er-plane-ideas

    Lee Valley sells a magnetic one.
    Last edited by Judson Green; 08-27-2014 at 10:32 AM.
    I got cash in my pocket. I got desire in my heart....

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Apex, NC
    Posts
    549
    Thanks for all the replies, guys. Sounds like it's not as big a leap as I've feared it may be. I realized as I read through the replies that I could have shared a little more detail to focus the question, so:

    1. I definitely can't use the jointer - it's 220V and there's no 220V in the house except the AC units, I believe. Laundry is nat gas, and is on the 2nd floor, so no way to even use an extension cord, which by the way @Winton, is what I did before - I made a 220V extension cord and ran it from the laundry room. Great idea!
    2. I do have a planer, and would be loathe to give it up. Thicknessing by hand does not appeal to me, in part because of the old injury. Which leads me to...
    3. Back in my early teen years, I suffered an injury that severely wonked up (for lack of a more appropriate term) my neck. Decades later, I've got bone growth pinching on nerves which results in a loss of strength (at its worst, I can't lift a dinner plate over shoulder height), partial numbness in ring and pinkie fingers on both hands, and stabbing pain in my triceps that feels like an ice pick. Luckily, it's not all at once, and it's not all the time, but you can imagine how thicknessing something by hand would not be fun with such issues.
    4. I have a fairly decent array of hand planes that I've been working with. Relevant to this discussion (no need to list them all, right? ), I've a Bailey #5, LN #62, and LV #6 and BU jointer with magnetic fence.

    Now, regarding #3, I have hopes that neander work will provide me with a form of therapy, but I'm also concerned that if it's too hard to flatten boards by hand, I'll get frustrated and lose interest. I guess that's the root of my fear, as I really enjoy woodworking and would hate to be so discouraged as to walk away from it. David, I agree with your power tool philosophy, but have yet to make the full transition to neander for the projects I like. I'm working on it, though!

    Given the discussion so far, it sounds like it may be worth selling the jointer and use the funds for workbench hardware and other tools. Hmmmm.....maybe I should peruse the LV web site some more and convince myself there are things I'd rather have than a jointer.


    Thanks again,

    daniel
    Last edited by daniel lane; 08-27-2014 at 5:54 PM.
    Not all chemicals are bad. Without hydrogen or oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Enchanted land of beer, cheese & brats
    Posts
    1,314
    Quote Originally Posted by daniel lane View Post
    I do have a planer, and would be loathe to give it up. Thicknessing by hand does not appeal to me, in part because of the old injury.


    I'm also concerned that if it's too hard to flatten boards by hand, I'll get frustrated and lose interest. I guess that's the root of my fear, as I really enjoy woodworking and would hate to be so discouraged as to walk away from it.


    daniel
    If you feel it not being fun anymore make a planer sled. You'll always have chatter marks to clean up with a hand plane and do final surfacing. Have the machines do the boring bull work.
    Last edited by Judson Green; 08-27-2014 at 11:42 AM.
    I got cash in my pocket. I got desire in my heart....

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Posts
    9,469
    Hi Daniel

    My most recent purchase has been a combination jointer-planer/thicknesser (Hammer A3-31), and it is a joy to use. My pleasure comes from the use of handtools, but there is no fun in preparing our local hardwoods. The decision to own and use power tools is simply an issue of what is practical and necessary for each person.

    Given the choice of a jointer or a planer, I would go for the jointer every time. I believe that it is easier thicknessing a board with handplanes once one side is flat than flattening the side of a long board and then running it through a planer. Most small planers are terribly noisy. Jointers are much less so.

    If all you plan to use is softwoods, then my recommendation to retain a jointer is less relevant.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    1,029
    I use a cheap 6" 110v jointer. I've used similar ones for many years and have no plans to abandon it or my thickness planer. Like any tools, it requires proper setup and a feel for where and when to put pressure. Reading the wood is every bit as important as with a hand tool. With my cheap jointer and the planer, I can quickly and reliably create flat, square, parallel stock. I leave everything slightly oversize and finish up by removing the machine marks with hand planes.

    I'm not suggesting that anyone should stop flattening with hand tools. For a hybrid hobby woodworker like myself, it reduces the time and effort of rough stock prep and allows me to maximize the time I spend doing joinery and such.

    The power tools that get less and less use in my shop are my router and table saw.

    If it were me, especially with the injury you describe, I'd probably look to acquire a smaller 110v jointer. Maybe sell off the 220v? Also, some tools can be wired for 220 or 110. Perhaps it can be converted?
    Last edited by Daniel Rode; 08-27-2014 at 1:02 PM.
    -- Dan Rode

    "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." - Aristotle

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Neither here nor there
    Posts
    3,831
    Blog Entries
    6
    I have a Ridgid 13" thickness planer that I use, and I have a 4" portable Delta jointer that serves as a weight to hold my bench down because I never use it. The current issue of Shop Notes has a sled for jointing on a thickness planer. You might check that out. Also if you don't have one, get a scrub plane, and just scrub the board flat, then use the thickness planer to do the rest. Finish with a #3 or #4 after final dimensioning.

    As for edge jointing, I LOVE my Veritas low-angle jointer. The fence is a great option, and I like being able to change blade angles easily, or add a toothed blade. I buy lumber rough sawn. Typically it is very flat, but the edges are horrible. I use the low angle jointer to joint one edge, then I run it on the table saw with a 7 1/4" blade to match the other edge. For really crooked stuff I will make a pass through the table saw first, then joint that edge, then use it against the fence for the second pass.

    I now have access to a "real" shop with all sorts of noisemakers, and unless I have a lot of boards to do, I will probably stick to my hand jointing one edge method because I enjoy it.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    866
    You've gotten a lot of good advice - to which I'll add what I think are a couple highlights.

    Furniture seldom requires board lengths over 4'. You don't have to get a board completely flat on one side, you simply have to get enough flat that it does not rock when set on a flat surface. Run the non-rocking board through the planer until you have one side flat, then flip and you are done.

    I'm slowly switching to buying rough lumber because buying nominal 4/4 S2S straightlined results in something significantly less than 3/4" after final planing. Just no room for error.

    A good bench at the proper height for you can make all the difference in ease of planing.

    JMO & YMWV

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    1,029
    For power or hand thicknessing the board needs to be flat enough across the entire surface to resist being compressed by the rollers in the planer or the pressure of the hand plane. It doesn't need to be perfectly flat everywhere but lots of contact across the entire board is important.

    It's easy remove twist such that the board does not rock but still has a significant cup or bow that can be compressed. Rather than a flat board, you make a thinner board that retains the cup or bow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Curt Putnam View Post
    You don't have to get a board completely flat on one side, you simply have to get enough flat that it does not rock when set on a flat surface. Run the non-rocking board through the planer until you have one side flat, then flip and you are done.
    Last edited by Daniel Rode; 08-27-2014 at 3:10 PM.
    -- Dan Rode

    "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." - Aristotle

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •