People are different. I doubt the old timers cared what someone else thought or did, as long as it worked for them. anyone who has a system DOWN that works for them long term, I'd call them a master, period.Originally Posted by david charlesworth
People are different. I doubt the old timers cared what someone else thought or did, as long as it worked for them. anyone who has a system DOWN that works for them long term, I'd call them a master, period.
Contributor
I can barely keep track of my car keys. I think losing a ruler is an acceptable excuse!
[edit]I also seem to have a hard time spelling things correctly these days, too.
The Barefoot Woodworker.
Fueled by leather, chrome, and thunder.
Member
Yes, and all that for something I don't need! And it's only for plane blades, not for chisels, so it's half a solution anyway.
Contributor
For me, the ruler trick is too easy not to use. The ruler is always laying in the same place, so it's fast, easy and it works.
I have one plane iron that doesn't have a back bevel because I use it for marking. However, I still completely flatten 1/2" of the backs on all my irons. So I *could* skip the ruler trick.
-- Dan Rode
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." - Aristotle
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I guess I am aiming this one over David's bow but toward all the free handers here swearing by the "RT".
Thank you for the acronym by the way; perhaps it will not invoke an appearance of the terrifying apparition such as a full verbalizing of the name of the beast will most surely do.
Just having fun
anyway
I was amused to realize that the freehanders with rulers and the girly man jig users who insist on going ruler free ( I include my self in the latter proud few) . . .
well the two groups are exactly the same
but
at the same time are like matter and antimatter.
so
all is right with the world and in perfect balance.
Ha, ha
the jig dudes insist on no jig ( ruler) when working the back
and
the freehanders insist on using a jig (the ruler) when working the back.
That's Beautiful !
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,
Last edited by Winton Applegate; 09-03-2014 at 12:43 AM.
Sharpening is Facetating.Good enough is good enoughButBetter is Better.
Member
Huh? I think I start to deviate from you again Wilton. No jig, no ruler overhere.
That's a pitty. It felt so good to be on the same side for once.
Member
Can't be done. I would have to SEE that !No jig, no ruler overhere.
Walking without crutches ?
Next you are going to tell me you can swim with out water wings.
or ride a bicycle without training wheels.
Well
I have heard of such things but . . .
Sharpening is Facetating.Good enough is good enoughButBetter is Better.
Member
Kees,
We can rekindle that feeling Kees !That's a pitty. It felt so good to be on the same side for once.
All you have to do is pick up that jig Kees. Just pick it up Kees.
Kees, you know you feel more secure with it than without it. Load that blade in there and feel the precision !
Come on . . . there is no shame in using an air plane to soar with the eagles.
Kees, it is time to let go of good enough and embrace the pinnacle of precision and perfection.
Just pick up that jig
just pick it up . . .
Last edited by Winton Applegate; 09-03-2014 at 1:52 AM.
Sharpening is Facetating.Good enough is good enoughButBetter is Better.
Member
Learning to fly,that would be something! I've always dreamed about parapenting, soaring up on the winds and convection. But allas, never got around to learn it.
[OP]
Member
Just to report on the methods suggested by Winton and Derek to overcome suction when polishing very flat plane blade backs (such as Lee Valley/Veritas) on finer grit Shapton professionals. (especially the 5000 for some reason, but its been problematical on anything finer than 1000 grit) That's without using the ruler trick. (which clearly works very well - but it just seems a pity not to take advantage of such beautifully flat blade backs) Chisels with their smaller area present no real problem, especially the hollow backed Japanese variety.
I'd been finding that I simply could not push the blade over the stones even with a wood block handle taped on the back - they were locking down almost solid after three or so strokes. With frequent flattening and their low rate of wear the Shaptons stay very flat - which is a major advantage, but possibly also a contributing factor. No amount of water solved the problem.
The likelihood is that there's some minor variation in technique or situation that means that not everybody has been experiencing this. e.g. a not quite perfectly flat blade back, or something else. It may or may not be an issue on other brands of waterstone.
I've been getting really good results using the movements David Charlesworth recommends - what he calls movment 1, and movement 2 in his writing. Both entail progressively working the edge of blade out over the side of the stone, and then back on again. The logic is that they tend to reduce both central hollowing of the stone, and to remove any consequent slight dubbing from the back of the blade. Especially over repeated sharpenings. Which seems a very good idea. But...
Three blades later 'Winton's Weave' (
Using both methods and playing around the key seems to be to keep the leading edge/side of the blade tilted at 30 - 40 deg to its direction of travel. Much like skewing a plane, although movement 1 involves the blade moving side first. My guess is that it results in a bit less less water being sheared off the surface of the stone/drives a film of water under the blade that keeps it lubricated/stops it running dry.
It's possible to still utilise the Charlesworth movements, but with the blade skewed as above and still get the benefit of the reduced suction/stiction.
Thanks guys, that's a nice step forward for me...
Using both fixes
Last edited by ian maybury; 09-09-2014 at 6:58 PM.
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Mix washing soda or laundry borax (not detergent) in distilled water and use this to wet the stone (tap water contains corrosive chlorine, which accumulates in the pores of the stone). I keep a dishwashing soap bottle containing this solution handy. You need slurry, and if working the the blade doesn't create it, use a nagura to get things started. Continue to drip water on the stone to maintain the slurry at the right consistency so it cuts the blade without developing too much friction. If this doesn't work, get a different stone, because too much suction, if it cannot be controlled, is intolerable. Depending on your blades and sharpening style, some stones will work better than others.
Stan
Last edited by Stanley Covington; 09-13-2014 at 2:22 PM.
[OP]
Member
Thanks Stanley - will try both. I have a nagura to try too...
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