staining pine table - 1 shot to get it right

[Mike Dowell]

I've got this old pine table which was painted but I have since stripped it and sanded it. I'm ready for stain and I know how much pine hates stain. I've got 1 shot to get this right so I can't afford any mistakes - I'm already over on time(this has been pushed aside many times).

The sides you see and a repair I made to it. It used to have decorative banding but most of it was missing so I replace the sides with strips I cut from 2x4s.

Ideally, I'd like the top of this in minwax early American. I've also got a Mohawk perpetrating stain in raw umber which I would be happy with too.

Someone have the steps I can take to a sure fire victory? Color is less important as blotches are my key avoidance.

Thanks!

ForumRunner_20140901_110226.jpg



ForumRunner_20140901_110312.jpg

[Al Launier]

Test piece on same type of scrap wood?

[Mike Dowell]

Test piece on same type of scrap wood?

I don't have any scrap of the table top. I can mess about with a 2x4 but that won't help in predicting the outcome of the top.

[Jerry Thompson]

Every time I stain or dye pine, fir or poplar I use hide glue sizing or Charles Neil's product, Pre-color conditioner. The hide glue is mixed with water un util it is pretty thin and allowed to dry 24 hrs and lightly sanded with #000 steel wool. I then blow off the work area and apply my choice of stain or dye. Water base dye does not bother the glue unless one were to scrub it.
On all of my projects using this method on the afore mentioned woods, along with blotch prone woods, I have had excellent results. The end grain even comes out the same a the long grain. Again test on scrap first. No matter the hurry remember the saying, "Why is there always time to do it over instead of right the first time."

[Mike Dowell]

Every time I stain or dye pine, fir or poplar I use hide glue sizing or Charles Neil's product, Pre-color conditioner. The hide glue is mixed with water un util it is pretty thin and allowed to dry 24 hrs and lightly sanded with #000 steel wool. I then blow off the work area and apply my choice of stain or dye. Water base dye does not bother the glue unless one were to scrub it.
On all of my projects using this method on the afore mentioned woods, along with blotch prone woods, I have had excellent results. The end grain even comes out the same a the long grain. Again test on scrap first. No matter the hurry remember the saying, "Why is there always time to do it over instead of right the first time."

That's the second time I've heard good things about that product. I've got the minwax conditioner but I've not seen good remarks for it so I don't want to chance it.

I don't want to rush it. I don't know if you saw my thread about the dining table or not, but that wasn't the case of a rush, rather spray problem and it has, and continues to cost me hours. I'm a one man operation struggling to make a modest living in this business and when things don't go well on a project, it hurts me very badly on a financial level. That's why I want to make sure I've got a grasp on this table before I begin.

I've put out some unbelievably high quality work in the past but it seems like lately, ive been treading in uncharted water a lot - a place I'm not comfortable with - and these are customer jobs so I care about them 10fold what I do my own projects.

Thanks for the input!

[Bob Wingard]

+1 on Charles Neil's Conditioner ... great stuff, and simple to use.

[Mike Dowell]

+1 on Charles Neil's Conditioner ... great stuff, and simple to use.

It has already shipped! Thank you all for the input. I'm super excited.

[Mike Dowell]

Nailed it. Love the Charles Neil product.

ForumRunner_20140909_102800.jpg

That's minwax dark walnut left on thick until tacky, then wiped.

[Jim Becker]

I don't have any scrap of the table top. I can mess about with a 2x4 but that won't help in predicting the outcome of the top.

Pick an area on the bottom of the table top to use as your test area then...you can sand it out if 1) you don't like it and/or 2) you decide you do like it. I don't use pigment stains on pine and many other woods. Ever. I use dye. While looks like something the dog left behind at first. But then I put on an application of oil which magically transforms things. If you are going to use an oil based finish you can go right to that after the oil has a day or so to cure. If you are going to use a water borne finish, it's best to seal with dewaxed shellac first before applying your top coats. BTW, when you do your testing, you MUST do all the steps through the first top cost to understand what the color is going to be. And remember, the pine will get a little darker over time.

[Mike Dowell]

What dyes do you prefer?

[Mike Dowell]

What dyes do you prefer?

I have many WD lockwood water soluble dyes. I can match any color I need to perfectly but, I get a lot of streaking and uneven color with these dyes. I find that I have to spend a lot of time with a liberally wet towel wiping and wiping to even out the color.

[Jim Becker]

What dyes do you prefer?

I happent to use Transfast and Transtint dyes.

[Mike Dowell]

Jim, are these water soluble dyes? Which ones do you use? The General Finishes based ones? Do you have difficulty with lines and lap marks with the water dyes like I do? What oil are you talking about that you put on afterwards? Can you elaborate on your routine?

Thanks!

[Jim Becker]

Water soluble, yes. As stated Transfast and Transtint. Small items I wipe it on and since it's water soluble, you can work it a little to minimize laps. Larger pieces I've taken to spraying the dye.

Oil is BLO. Followed by sprayed de-waxed shellac as a barrier coat since I use water borne top coats.