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Thread: Quarter sawn or plain sawn Maple?

  1. #16
    The silver maples ,at least around here, tend to put down a web of roots on the surface and then constantly send up rapidly growing forest of shoots. I think lumber is the right use for it.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Barry View Post
    I thought that was because it was just easier and it was a small job for him
    If he knows your intention, and you're willing to pay a little more for extra time - he may come around.
    Half the challenge with something like this is in getting someone to just show up.

    I'm keen to see the results of this,
    out of pure, voyeur curiosity.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Kornell View Post
    Pat, this image shows boards all cut quartersawn, not riftsawn. it is a fairly inefficient use of the log.
    I agree its inefficient and produces lots of wasted wood to boot, but its confusing because the terminology doesn't seem to be standardized or the meanings have changed over the years. See this image:
    sawing.gif
    or this one for a different perspective
    rift.jpg

  4. #19
    If this tree has any figure it will be apparent right under the bark, easy to look for. As far as quarter, slab rift, unless you want musical instrument wood or drawer sides I'd suggest live sawing the log and you'll ge a mix of every thing nice and quickly. An 18" to 22" log turns into very narrow quarters once bark, heart and process are taken into account. Enjoy the process, it's fun.

  5. #20
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    Pat, I do this for a living. A few comments.

    Usually you can detect highly figured maple by looking at the outside of the log under the bark, or slice through one of the major lower limbs at an angle.

    There are several different industry recognized organizations that provide information about quarter and rift sawn lumber. These include the USDA Forestry Products Lab (FPL), the National Hardwood Lumber Association (NHLA), the National Hardwood Flooring Manufacturers Association (NHFMA), and the Architectural Woodworking Institute (AWI).

    All of these organizations agree that quartersawn lumber is determined by the angle that the annular growth rings intersect the face of the board. Unfortunately, they don't all agree on exactly what that angle is. Some define it as between 60 - 90 degrees, others define it as between 75 - 90 degrees, and still others define it as 45 - 90 degrees.

    In Bruce Hoadley's book "Understanding Wood", he defines quartersawn lumber as that where the growth rings form angles of anywhere from 45 degrees to 90 degrees with the surface, with "rift grain" indicating surfaces intermediate between 45 degrees to 90 degrees. Hoadley also refers to rift sawn lumber as "bastard grain" too. Unfortunately, Hoadley does not provide references to any FLP, NHLA or AWI standards in his book.

    The current industry recognized definition of quarter and rift sawn lumber recognized by architects and professional cabinet shops nationwide is published by the AWI. AWI defines quartersawn lumber as having annual growth ring orientation between 60 - 90 degrees relative to the face of the board. AWI defines rift sawn lumber as measured by annular growth ring orientation between 30 - 60 degrees to the face of the board, with 45 degrees being "optimum" (page 449, Appendix B, section 3 Lumber of the 2009 1st edition of Architectural Woodwork Standards with drawing from same posted below).

    The best that I have been able to determine is that earliest version of the drawing shared earlier in this thread of rift sawn lumber dates back to a mistake that was made by a manuscript editor of a FPL publication back in the 1930's. FPL corrected the mistake in subsequent versions of the document, but numerous copies of the document had already been released and the misinformation exists to this day.

    Pretty much the entire woodworking manufacturers industry adheres to the AWI standard regarding rift and quarter sawn lumber, but there are a few holdouts that still follow the mislabled drawing from the FPL.

    fyi Plain sawn lumber is also called "flat sawn".

    Maple is typically flat sawn, although QS maple can have some nice ray fleck (although small). Curl does show up well on QS and RS lumber, and quilted shows best on FS. Usually the best spot for a slab is about 1/3 to 2/5 of the way through the log - close to the center but far enough away so that the juvenile wood cells in the pith wood are not incorporated into the slab.

    Scott

    AWI rift and quarter lumber diagramv2.jpg

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott T Smith View Post
    Pat, I do this for a living. A few comments.

    Usually you can detect highly figured maple by looking at the outside of the log under the bark, or slice through one of the major lower limbs at an angle.

    There are several different industry recognized organizations that provide information about quarter and rift sawn lumber. These include the USDA Forestry Products Lab (FPL), the National Hardwood Lumber Association (NHLA), the National Hardwood Flooring Manufacturers Association (NHFMA), and the Architectural Woodworking Institute (AWI).

    All of these organizations agree that quartersawn lumber is determined by the angle that the annular growth rings intersect the face of the board. Unfortunately, they don't all agree on exactly what that angle is. Some define it as between 60 - 90 degrees, others define it as between 75 - 90 degrees, and still others define it as 45 - 90 degrees.

    In Bruce Hoadley's book "Understanding Wood", he defines quartersawn lumber as that where the growth rings form angles of anywhere from 45 degrees to 90 degrees with the surface, with "rift grain" indicating surfaces intermediate between 45 degrees to 90 degrees. Hoadley also refers to rift sawn lumber as "bastard grain" too. Unfortunately, Hoadley does not provide references to any FLP, NHLA or AWI standards in his book.

    The current industry recognized definition of quarter and rift sawn lumber recognized by architects and professional cabinet shops nationwide is published by the AWI. AWI defines quartersawn lumber as having annual growth ring orientation between 60 - 90 degrees relative to the face of the board. AWI defines rift sawn lumber as measured by annular growth ring orientation between 30 - 60 degrees to the face of the board, with 45 degrees being "optimum" (page 449, Appendix B, section 3 Lumber of the 2009 1st edition of Architectural Woodwork Standards with drawing from same posted below).

    The best that I have been able to determine is that earliest version of the drawing shared earlier in this thread of rift sawn lumber dates back to a mistake that was made by a manuscript editor of a FPL publication back in the 1930's. FPL corrected the mistake in subsequent versions of the document, but numerous copies of the document had already been released and the misinformation exists to this day.

    Pretty much the entire woodworking manufacturers industry adheres to the AWI standard regarding rift and quarter sawn lumber, but there are a few holdouts that still follow the mislabled drawing from the FPL.

    fyi Plain sawn lumber is also called "flat sawn".

    Maple is typically flat sawn, although QS maple can have some nice ray fleck (although small). Curl does show up well on QS and RS lumber, and quilted shows best on FS. Usually the best spot for a slab is about 1/3 to 2/5 of the way through the log - close to the center but far enough away so that the juvenile wood cells in the pith wood are not incorporated into the slab.

    Scott

    AWI rift and quarter lumber diagramv2.jpg
    Thanks Scott - this is excellent information. It just goes to show again that you can't believe everything you see out there in a google search. I trust your sources of information far more and it makes sense to boot. Thanks again

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Barry View Post
    Chris, the descriptions don't match between the figure on the left and the ones on the right. It seems there isn't a standard for describing rift sawn and quarter sawn. Many places seem to interchange them
    Observed the same description error. No wonder there is confusion.
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  8. #23
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    Today was the day to get my maple log sliced up finally. I ended up going with the plain slicing method and I think that will be good. I had it cut at 1 1/4 and 2 1/4 inch thick slices (boy those 2 1/4 by 2 ft wide by 7 1/2 ft long boards are heavy. The tree was cut down about a month ago. I now have it all stacked and stickered in my garage. How long will this take to dry? Here is a pic of the slicing process.
    Tree_Slicing.jpg

  9. #24
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    Congrats!

    Those slabs are going to take a lot longer to dry in your garage than they would out where there is better airflow to wick away moisture. Figure about a year per inch, but that's not consistent across all species and is also affected by environmentals, such as the air flow I mentioned.
    --

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  10. #25
    Congratulations. A rule of thumb is roughly a year per inch. Roughly. I would get a pin moisture meter. They are cheap insurance and a good investment. I am glad i got mine.

  11. #26
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    If you haven't put some kind of sealer on the end grain, I would do so as soon as possible. Paraffin, Anchorseal, or even paint will help minimize loss to end checking.

  12. #27
    One point for anyone considering this process; yard trees like this often contain foreign objects, from porcelain insulators to bolts to maple taps, so be prepared to pay the sawyer for damaged blades at $25 or so per encounter.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Jenness View Post
    One point for anyone considering this process; yard trees like this often contain foreign objects, from porcelain insulators to bolts to maple taps, so be prepared to pay the sawyer for damaged blades at $25 or so per encounter.
    Yeah, the sawyer ran into two nails totally embedded about 3 inches deep and had to sharpen his blade twice, once for each nail.

  14. #29
    Soft maple dries fast. In my climate, it will air dry to 15% in 90 to 120 days, especially if you use a couple off fans on the stack. You need a lot of air flow on the stack in the first two weeks of drying or you might get sticker stain, which is a big problem in drying maple.

  15. #30
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    Thanks for the tips guys. What I was thinking that here in Minnesota, 8 deg F this morning, that by stacking it in the garage it would dry some over the winter, then in the summer my garage which is unheated and uninsulated gets pretty warm. Outside the boards will freeze and I won't get much drying if any. I'll look into setting up a fan though, maybe on a timer. Maybe I should tent it and then blow air in and across?

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