problems setting chipbreaker/s

[Noah Wagener]

Tapered blades i have bend when i tighten the screw leaving only a small portion of the screw in contact with the blade on the side towards the business end. I think because of this the breaker wants to slide back as i tighten. If i squeeze real tight I can hold the breaker in place. But, I like to set the blade just short and then tap it proud of the soul with the wedge tightened. When i do this the blade moves but the breaker stays in place making it farther from the edge. I only use hand pressure on the wedge. If i try to set the blade first, the act of pushing the wedge forward will also push the edge/breaker assembly forward. I could not set it accuratley that way even if the wedge did not affect it.

What to do? Has anyone else had this problem? I was thinkng maybe a fender washer or a rubber fender washer or both on the breaker screw might make the blade and breaker more firmly mated?

[Noah Wagener]

I also have a problem setting a breaker on a Japanese plane. I flattened those ears completely that push the breaker against the pin and the breaker still won't get to within 18mm of the edge. I really see moving the pin as the only option but hate to put another hole in the block.

Off topic. the plane has a metal rod behind the blade through the block width wise. what is this for? it is a low bedding angle so maybe it adds strength?

[David Weaver]

For the japanese planes, your pin is in the wrong place and you'll never set the cap iron close because of it. That's not uncommon.

For the double iron plane, scuff the top of the iron (it shouldn't be hardened around where the cap iron screw is) with coarse sandpaper and do the same to the back of the cap iron. That should give them some bite to each other - make the lines, obviously, parallel to the cutting edge.

You are already doing the right thing by getting everything set up as much as possible by hand so that you only have to do a little more hammering. Some of the old irons are a bit more trick to deal with than a stanley iron and cap iron set.

[David Weaver]

I should rephrase the japanese plane issue, it may be that the rod is exactly where it was intended to go, but the person making the dais didn't have the iron and cap iron to work from, so the resulting dai doesn't work with that specific iron and cap iron.

[Steve Voigt]

On the western plane, in case Dave's suggestions don't cure the problem, two more things to look at.

- your chipbreaker screw may be running into the end of the slot (in other words, the slot is too short). That has happened to me. Another related possibility is that you have burrs on the screw that are catching on the bottom surface of the slot.

- on some old double irons, there is just too much curve on the chipbreaker. When you tighten the screw just finger tight, there should be about 1/16" of daylight between the two pieces. A little more is ok, but if there is a huge gap, that can be a problem. This can be fixed by grinding (carefully!) a little off the chipbreaker and re-honing the back side. This will affect the fit of the wedge, though, so I'd eliminate all other possibilities first.

[David Wong]

For your Japanese plane chipbreaker, short of plugging and redrilling the hole for the chipbreaker pin, you can try (slowly and carefully) filing the underside if the pin to allow more clearance. Lightly file only the areas where there is contact with the chipbreaker. Go through mant iterations of filing and fitting to make sure you do not take off too much. If you think you have to file too much off the pin, it would be better to move it instead. You can judge how much by removing the chipbreaker pin and laying in the chipbreaker and judge its position relative to the pin hole.

Chris Hall just completed a very informative series on setting up a kanna on his blog http://thecarpentryway.blogspot.com. He addresses this very issue.

[Kees Heiden]

One of the billiant points of the Bailey design is how well the capiron works. You set it, tightnen the screw and nothing moves. I had my share of troubles with the old woodie irons. You can bend the iron parts relatively easy with a big vise and some pliers, so you can shape them around until you hve a better fit. One I remember had a huge burr at the upper end like someone had beaten it with a hammer. That made it also difficult to stay in place when tightening the screw. On my user planes I now have them sorted, but still need to hold the capiron with thumb and fingers while tigtening the screw.

[Noah Wagener]

thank yous

One sixteenth is the size of the gap. the screw has very little contact though. Because the blade bends, the screw is only contacting in the front and most of that part of the blade is not there (the slot). I practised getting it set as close to as i want it before wedging and while the breaker was definitely a little backed off from its original setting, it did tame tearout when i planed uphill deliberately. It worked better than closing the mouth. That is actually the main thing i meant to ask. I just patched the mouth of this plane and the shavings pass through fine with the breaker backed off but with the tight setting they jam. Should i just forget about tight mouths? in my plane book the author states that a tight mouth is one thing in your arsenal to control tearout but later says that a closed mouth can cause the blade to dip and chatter and overheat the blade and a chipbreaker is all you need.

Incidentally, i ran that Japanese plane uphill on the same board with no breaker and it produced a better surface the coffin did downhill. That coffin had minor tearout with backed off breaker and a pinched mouth and no tearout with a close breaker but the surface was not as nice as the same plane downhill. The Japanese plane was a lower bed angle as well and ive always read that higher angles are best at controlling tearout. Any ideas why? Just sharper? the would was doug fir.

thanks for the link David. I was going to see if i could use that plane for shooting and forget about the breaker but i am impressed with it enough to try and get it set up properly. It is a used plane so i guess they did not care about setting the breaker. the pin is very skinny so i do not think i could file it enough. Do you know the custom for shooting endgrain in Japan?

[David Wong]

Incidentally, i ran that Japanese plane uphill on the same board with no breaker and it produced a better surface the coffin did downhill. That coffin had minor tearout with backed off breaker and a pinched mouth and no tearout with a close breaker but the surface was not as nice as the same plane downhill. The Japanese plane was a lower bed angle as well and ive always read that higher angles are best at controlling tearout. Any ideas why? Just sharper? the would was doug fir.

Glad to hear you are having success with you japanese plane. They can be frustratingly finicky, performing well one day and not the next. In those cases, check the blade sharpness and the sole. Perhaps the difference you are seeing in performance between the coffin and japanese plane is due to the size of the mouth opening?

thanks for the link David. I was going to see if i could use that plane for shooting and forget about the breaker but i am impressed with it enough to try and get it set up properly. It is a used plane so i guess they did not care about setting the breaker. the pin is very skinny so i do not think i could file it enough. Do you know the custom for shooting endgrain in Japan?

Chris hall's blog is an amazing wealth of knowledge and deserves to be studied carefully. I still struggling to get consistent results with japanese planes, and have also almost ruined a chip breaker by filing off the thick end in an early attempt to make it fit. I have had plenty of other mishaps fitting the blade. Chris's blog explains more than the common tuning situations.

I have seen examples of shooting boards similar to western plane shooting boards, except the plane is pulled into the fence. The plane can ride on its side, typically on the bench, or have a ramp like the common western shooting board. There are examples of japanese shooting boards where the plane is simply hand held against the shooting board, and pulled to shave the end grain. Here is an example. It is used against planing stops on the floor bench. In this image, the planing stops have been removed from the dados.

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