Yet another help me decide on a machine post...

[Kit Dumph]

The more I research it seems the more murky things seem to get.
I was really considering just going with one of the big three until I started reading on here and doing some more research.
Now I'm really liking the Shenhui lasers, and importing doesn't bother me since I already do it for a different business.
Rabbit isn't off the board, but it seems they offer a Shenhui laser, but with some quality USA tech support?

I'm a complete newbie at this, and though I won't rely on it for direct income I'd like to make money with the laser and perhaps see if it could become a direct source of income for me in the future.

So my questions are as follows,
Is there a measurable difference in say an epilog machine to a comparable Shenhui machine? Minus of course the customer service and tec support I would get from Epilog.

Should I go with the larger and more powerful Shenhui machine since they all will be well under 10k?

What kind of learning curve should I expect? I'm comfortable with learning new software such as coral draw. So it would be more on using the laser and settings? 1 year, 2 years?

Is there anyone on this board here in Colorado, USA I could get in touch with and perhaps meet up with to learn from?

I'll stop there for now

Thank you for all the support and information you guys put out there.

[Kevin Gregerson]

The more I research it seems the more murky things seem to get.
I was really considering just going with one of the big three until I started reading on here and doing some more research.
Now I'm really liking the Shenhui lasers, and importing doesn't bother me since I already do it for a different business.
Rabbit isn't off the board, but it seems they offer a Shenhui laser, but with some quality USA tech support?

I'm a complete newbie at this, and though I won't rely on it for direct income I'd like to make money with the laser and perhaps see if it could become a direct source of income for me in the future.

So my questions are as follows,
Is there a measurable difference in say an epilog machine to a comparable Shenhui machine? Minus of course the customer service and tec support I would get from Epilog.

Should I go with the larger and more powerful Shenhui machine since they all will be well under 10k?

What kind of learning curve should I expect? I'm comfortable with learning new software such as coral draw. So it would be more on using the laser and settings? 1 year, 2 years?

Is there anyone on this board here in Colorado, USA I could get in touch with and perhaps meet up with to learn from?

I'll stop there for now

Thank you for all the support and information you guys put out there.

It isn't just support, it's also material databases, time saved hunting for settings, consistency, job control and logs, speed, availability of parts, resale value, modular design, and ability to rebuild the machine. I doubt you could find the parts to rebuild machines made in the mid to late 90s by very few companies let alone a chinese one. Even more recent ones around 2008 i've found lurking in shops unable to be rebuilt due to vendors going out of business etc.

Ask around, ask for references to customers who bought machines 10-15 years ago. See how happy those customers are, and that will give you a better idea of the stability of your product choice.

[Mike Null]

And perhaps most important--quality of components and assembly vs. Chinese made machines.

I can certainly understand the cost consideration but the required "hands on" repair, adjusting and tuning which seems to be necessary with almost all Chinese built machines would be a stopper for me.

[Ernest Martin]

It probably comes down to quality, parts, and tech support. If I was doing just a hobby thing I would probably consider a Chinese laser but if my business depended on it I would probably be a little hesitant.
As far as parts I have ordered things from China and had it air freighted to my business faster than I could get things from a west coast business (I'm on the East coast).

[Scott Shepherd]

So my questions are as follows,
Is there a measurable difference in say an epilog machine to a comparable Shenhui machine? Minus of course the customer service and tec support I would get from Epilog.

Yes, there most certainly is a measurable difference in Western machines and a Shenhui machine. Does the areas where they are different matter to you? I have no idea. Both systems have their places.

[Kit Dumph]

Yes, there most certainly is a measurable difference in Western machines and a Shenhui machine. Does the areas where they are different matter to you? I have no idea. Both systems have their places.

In simliar speced machines, is the detail and ability of the machines going to be that much different? What are the areas that typically matter to most people, that the Shenhui machine would fall short?

[Kit Dumph]

And perhaps most important--quality of components and assembly vs. Chinese made machines.

I can certainly understand the cost consideration but the required "hands on" repair, adjusting and tuning which seems to be necessary with almost all Chinese built machines would be a stopper for me.

This might be a stopper for me as well, I don't mind some initial set up with the machine but If I'm constantly having to repair a machine I know nothing about that might be problem.

[Ross Moshinsky]

I've looked at the machines, thought about them, evaluated them and my conclusion is pretty simple.

If you want to raster engrave; buy a mainstream laser. If you want to vector cut; seriously consider a Chinese machine.

[Scott Shepherd]

This might be a stopper for me as well, I don't mind some initial set up with the machine but If I'm constantly having to repair a machine I know nothing about that might be problem.

If you aren't up to troubleshooting and fixing things, then I suggest you spend some time looking at this forum in detail. Take a look at what is asked on a daily basis. On any given day, probably 60% of the posts on this forum are people asking for help with their Chinese laser. There's 15 pages on a sticky topic that is full of people asking for help. If that is something that you can deal with, then it's probably a good choice. If that's not something you can deal with, then it's probably not a good choice.

Like I said, each has their place and only you know if it's something you can handle. Some people are handy and like to jump in and fix things, some people don't know which end of a screwdriver to hold. Depending where you are on that spectrum, will help decide on which direction to go.

It's your money, I can't help you spend it, but please educate yourself based on this forum and make an informed decision. There is no "right" answer, there's only a "right answer for you" and you have to make that call.

[Martin Boekers]

9 times out of 10 any purchase I have ever made due to pricing had been a wrong decision... Do the research, attend a trade show where you can actually see machines in action.
Talk with the reps, watch machines perform at high speed settings to see how smooth they run. Many here have Chinese Lasers and are happy with them, many do by spare parts with their initial order, just in case. If you don't use it daily you may run into more tube issues with glass tubes.

You location matters for getting parts, if your not in the USA then parts for Western Lasers can be expensive... Good Luck with your decision!

Welcome to SMC..... soooo much info here!

[David Somers]

Kit,

It might help folks if you could describe what you want to do with the machine? Is this for a serious business? A hobby business? A plain old hobby?

Are you OK with technology? I am not talking about having to assemble a circuit board or do assembly language coding, but are you able to maneuver your way around the inside of a computer nowadays if needed or are you totally reliant on a product's tech support people for help? Sounds like you deal with importing other things. Are you comfortable deciphering manuals that have been poorly translated from Chinese to English? I can send you an example of one if you have not looked before. The company I am going to be purchasing from kindly sent me both the manual and the software so I could see if I can deal with it OK.

I am about to order a machine myself. I am going to retire soon. I hope to have a semi paying business in my loved hobby of woodturning and will use a laser, and perhaps a CNC in conjunction with that and for other uses. But it is not a prime component of a business that I will rely on to fund my food and shelter. So it is far out of my league to consider a western machine. And as much as I respect and like the folks at Rabbit, and as reasonable as their prices are their pricing is also beyond what I was really prepared to put into this. For comparison....a western machine in the size and power I was looking for was about $30k. A Rabbit was around $10k. A directly ordered Chinese machine was around $3.6k with shipping and enough spare parts to choke a horse. The hidden costs of course are...no local support, some degree of language barrier when I do need support. A translated chinese manual, and some degree of fussing with the machine over its life. Though that seems to be wildly variable machine to machine. I am in IT, and am used to dealing with techy stuff everyday in a wide variety of equipment, and used to dealing with tech support staff all over the world and am not too phased by language barriers. Patience and friendliness will overcome some pretty major language differences in my experiences. Just don't drink too much coffee before making a foreign tech support call. (I am talking about patience as it relates to caffeine BTW, not bladder control <grin>)

So it made sense for me to pursue the chinese purchase route. Although I honestly wish I could have justified going with Rabbit. I do like Ray and Carole a bunch and can see they have built their business on the care they give their customers.

So that is my story in a nutshell. Hope that helps give you a little perspective on the choices.

Dave

[Kit Dumph]

Thank you for all the support thus far! I would like this to be a hobby business, with a possibility to grow into something larger. I have about 8 years of woodworking experience and while I don't have much in terms of technology background I feel I'm pretty savvy being part of a much younger generation. I'm only 26 and though I've never soldered on a circuit board I have taken apart iPhones and computers and replaced parts before (with youtube help of course).

So in a nutshell, if I go with a western machine... which will be Epilog since they are out of Colorado I will be mostly hassle free.
If I go with a Chinese machine and import, I can get a machine that through a western provider would cost me 30k, but only 3500 through china. Yet, will not be hassle free.
Or I can go somewhere in the middle with a Rabbit machine...

[Mike Null]

You might also browse the classifieds here for used equipment.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...ear-Chicago-IL

[Scott Shepherd]

I can get a machine that through a western provider would cost me 30k, but only 3500 through china. Yet, will not be hassle free.
Or I can go somewhere in the middle with a Rabbit machine...

You don't have to spend $30,000 on a laser for a mainstream model. We've bought 3 and we've never come close to spending $30,000 on one yet. Epilog makes models that are less than $10K. Contact an Epilog sales rep and see what they offer before you go believing you have to spend $30,000 on a machine.

[Paul Phillips]

Epilog makes models that are less than $10K. Contact an Epilog sales rep and see what they offer before you go believing you have to spend $30,000 on a machine.

I agree with Steve, but better yet, if you are close enough to Golden I would recommend you go see their showroom and ask to see a demo, they may even have slightly used demo models for sale! Also, check out their Facebook page, they are having an Engravers show this weekend that may be worth checking out, Epilog is known for being probably the friendliest company in terms of customer support and resources available. Whatever you decide, good luck!