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Thread: 460 Volt???

  1. #1

    460 Volt???

    I'm looking at a DP that has a 2HP, 1PH, 460V motor. Is there any way to run this on 220V, 1PH power, 20 or 30A, power?

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Derek, I would pop the lid on the motor junction box and look for a diagram on the inside cover that just might have an alternate configuration for 230V.
    Best Regards, Ken

  3. #3

    Oops!

    This is a new Powermatic 1203795 DP that is 3PH, 460V not 1PH. My mistake. To complicate things, it has an EVS system to change speeds. I don't have access to one to be able to look at diagrams on the motor. Think I can use this in my 220V, 1PH shop?

  4. #4
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    Derek:
    If it's 3 ph, you will need a phase converter, and they start at "mucho danaro".If you have it already, alot cheaper to replace motor.
    Roger

  5. #5
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    Derek, how bad you want that? Yes, it could be made to work, but you may very well be talking about a boost transformer and phase converter. Or you may be able to make that work with a frequency drive, but then that would probably interfere with the EVS. Any of those options would cost more than the project's worth (in my opinion).
    Feel the wind and set yourself a bolder course

  6. #6
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    Where's Dev when you need him??

    Richard

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Arita
    This is a new Powermatic 1203795 DP that is 3PH, 460V not 1PH. My mistake. To complicate things, it has an EVS system to change speeds. I don't have access to one to be able to look at diagrams on the motor. Think I can use this in my 220V, 1PH shop?
    You won't be able to use the VFD on it if you don't go 440v 3ph. VFD's are designed for certain voltages and can't be changed.

    Option one. Build a phase converter and get a transformer. The dp probably only has a 1 or 2hp motor so you'll only need a 3hp rotary phase converter. If you can get a used 3ph motor it should cost you less than $100 for a rotary converter panel off of EBay. Then you need a 220v -> 440v 3ph transformer.

    Option two. I would almost guarentee that the motor can be either 220 or 440. That means you'll need a 220v vfd off Ebay. Most vfd's can run on 1ph power and at that HP you will get almost full hp out of the dp. Again a 1-2hp vfd shouldn't cost much on Ebay.

    Option three. Tell me where the dp is so I can buy it... ;-) I run 440v 3ph in my shop.

    I even have a Yates y-20 BS which I use a 440v vfd on. Work very well with my 440->220v transformer wire backwards. Most transformer will be rated for going from 440 to 220 voltage. All you need to do is wire it backwards and you get 440 out of 220.

    On mine I went from 220 1ph to 440 1ph then to my converter which gave me 440 3ph. I do not suggest that you do this. Buy an individual transformer for the 440 equipment. This will allow you to use regular 220 3ph equipment when you come buy it.

    Your talking about $3k to $4k machine here.

    Marty

  8. #8
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    Derek,

    The easiest route would be to get a 1 phase motor of whatever HP you want. In the long run, it will probably be the cheapest way to go as well as being easier....

    3-phase is great if you have access to that kind of electricity but most of us do not.
    Wood: a fickle medium....

    Did you know SMC is user supported? Please help.

  9. #9
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    I tried to look at all the maunals and other powermatic info.
    From what I can see this particual model number is strictly made for 460 3 phase. there is another similar model 1203794 that can be used either on single phase or three phase in the 230 volt range. For what ever reason it looks like the 1203795 is strictly for 3 phase locations.

    why don't you buy the 1203794? BTW these guys are pretty pricey. Are you buying it new?

    For those who also answered this post, with all due respect I believe that you have not taken a careful look at this unit. It already has a 460 v three phase VFD on it! I have used VFD's before and they work great. As may of you know I also have a 3 phase shop. my experience with VFDs is that for 230 volt you can get them in single phase input and 3 phase output, three phase in and out. For the 460 volt units, they pretty much come 3 phase in and out at 460. I agree that many 3 phase motors are 9 wire motors and can often be changed from 230 to 460. But not all are. As I read the powermatic manual it seems that this particular unit is a strict 3 phase 460 unit. It may be a way of saving money in tiawan.

    I am not sure I followed all of marty's train of thought. I agree with him on most of it. Did you boost the 230 single to 460 single and then find a 460 single phase VFD? I have not run across them, but that is not to say they don't exist. I would think that you would really need to get this DP at a real steal to make it worth the effort to have transformers and a new VFD.

    lou

  10. #10
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    Lou's post has a lot of good points in it. You're not likely to find a 460v VFD that will work on 240v single phase input.

    Let's assume that you're getting this DP at a real steal. IMO, the best way to power it is to use a rotary phase convertor to generate your 3rd leg at 240v. Feed the 240v 3-phase into a 480/240 transformer to boost the voltage to 480v and feed that into your drill press.

    You can get both the RPC and transformer on ebay. Look at item #7529980413 as an example of the RPC you want. Look at item #7528389821 as an example of the transformer - in fact that transformer is probably pretty much exactly what you want - you need a transformer wired for 3-phase Delta, not 3-phase "Y".

    Rob

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by lou sansone
    I am not sure I followed all of marty's train of thought. I agree with him on most of it. Did you boost the 230 single to 460 single and then find a 460 single phase VFD? I have not run across them, but that is not to say they don't exist. I would think that you would really need to get this DP at a real steal to make it worth the effort to have transformers and a new VFD.

    lou
    I have a single phase transformer boosting my voltage from 220->440. It's a 15kva transformer that I got for $50. This gives me 440 volts that I needed for my Greenlee 227 mortiser. The reason I say don't do this is that some motors are either 220 or 440 only. My greenlee is 440 only while my 18" delta wedge bed was 220 only. I didn't realize that my planer was only 220 until after I setup my rotary converter. I had to switch out my 7.5hp for a 5hp motor. Better off making a 220 3ph and use a transformer where needed.

    If this is only a 440 machine then you'll need the rotary converter with a 220->440 3ph transformer. If you plan on expanding your shop (more machines) make yourself a 7.5-10hp rotary converter. This will give you lots of options for machines in the future. Many people are scared of 3ph machines and you can pick them up cheap.

    Oh, and no there not that expensive if you plan on doing some of the leg work.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Russell
    Lou's post has a lot of good points in it. You're not likely to find a 460v VFD that will work on 240v single phase input.
    I would say that you'll never find one. The electronics are made for either 220 or 440. You need a transformer to boost the voltage.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Padilla
    Derek,

    The easiest route would be to get a 1 phase motor of whatever HP you want. In the long run, it will probably be the cheapest way to go as well as being easier....

    3-phase is great if you have access to that kind of electricity but most of us do not.
    That really might not be the easiest since the vfd is on there to change the speed. There probably isn't any way of changing speed (pulleys or reeves pulleys) unless you have the VFD and VFD's won't work on 1ph motors.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Reimer
    Derek, how bad you want that? Yes, it could be made to work, but you may very well be talking about a boost transformer and phase converter. Or you may be able to make that work with a frequency drive, but then that would probably interfere with the EVS. Any of those options would cost more than the project's worth (in my opinion).
    EVS = VFD - Nothing fancy here just marketing terms.
    All you need is the 3ph. I use a rotary conveter and transformer with a 440v VFD on my Y-20.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by martyphee
    EVS = VFD - Nothing fancy here just marketing terms.
    Not marketing in the case of VFD. VFD refers specifically to variable frequency drive and applies specifically to 3-phase equipment. It changes the cycles per second that the AC power switches back and forth to govern the speed of the 3-phase induction motor. EVS (which is a marketing term) is generally different technology and is designed for small, single phase universal motors. It plays with the voltage, to the best of my knowledge.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

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