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Thread: The new LV planes

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Cruea View Post
    If I may ask. . .what's wrong with a weightier plane?

    I find my 7s and 8s to be an excellent weight; and I have a 7 with a thinner casting (curved Bedrock) that almost feels a little light to me. I have the LN 4 1/2 smoother and I honestly love the 5 1/2 pounds (that actually a real reason I love my #51. . .over 9 pounds of iron love, baby!)

    I realize everyone has a preference here, so I'm more just curious as I may be able to incorporate something new into how I do things. Just keep in mind, I'm the same guy that has a mortise mallet made from 2 chunks of 7 inch 8/4 hickory glued together.
    Nothing wrong with heavier planes. It's a matter of personal preference, combined with what woods one works, and what task one uses a plane for. In terms of long planes I find the weight of my type 11 No. 7 and my MF No. 18 (e.g. No. 6 size) to be perfect for the work I do.

    For me I find..

    - That as the amount of time I will spend using a given plane increases my liking of weight decreases. That is I tend to like heavy planes for making already fairly flat board a little flatter, but when it comes to really getting a surface flat with a No. 7, following a coarsely set jack, I prefer the lighter weight of a vintage bailey. I do like heavy smoothers (which includes a love affair with 5 1/2s) but when that same mass is proportionally increased on a 6 or bigger I find that that I get tired out pretty quickly.

    - On the flip side, I find that as the hardness or difficulty of the wood I am working increases my liking of weight increases. That is, I am more likely to like an extra heavy plane when I am working harder wood...the decrease in effort on the push is more likely to offset the increase in effort on the pull.

    At the moment I do all my stock prep by hand (though I do want a thickness planer) and I mostly work moderate domestic hardwoods (e.g. cherry and walnut). So for the work I'm doing which involves extended periods of heavy work with my fores and jointers, a lot of weight tends to tire me out more than it helps...so for my larger planes I gravitate towards vintage Baileys and MFs.

    If I were working harder woods or doing less intense surface prep with my planes I think I would generally prefer the heavier planes. That weight really does make things easier when your taking a heavy cut through really hard wood, but again for what I do it tends to tire me out more than it helps.

    Despite my personal preference, I think among people who are in the market for new premium plane, I am the odd man out. I mean, why spend $300 on a new plane if its exactly the same as an $80 vintage plane. I certainly see why manufacturers have gravitated towards heavier castings, and I think they were smart make them about the same weight as the new Bed Rocks on the market (LN, Clifton, WR). I certainly don't think they went overboard or outside the modern preferred norms. I just personally have found myself gravitating towards something a little lighter than the 8-10 lb modern jointers for most of what I use a jointer for, which again is typically extended periods of flattening of moderate domestic hardwoods (and that context is inseparable from my weight preference...which even with all that is a mild preference and likely won't stop me from buying a new 7 at some point).


    Long story short, like all things, weight has trade offs, and how/what you work will likely dictate what trade off make the most sense.
    Last edited by Chris Griggs; 09-15-2014 at 11:10 AM.
    Woodworking is terrific for keeping in shape, but it's also a deadly serious killing system...

  2. #47
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    Adjuster: What do think

    I have a new style Stanley Bedrock #4 (it was a gift) and it has a Norris style adjuster. And I find that adjuster rather difficult to set and easily bumped. Kind of a bummer as I had high hopes for that style adjuster, but the one on this plane has turned me off.

    Is the LV better? I didn't notice, are there set screws on the body to keep the iron set?
    Last edited by Judson Green; 09-15-2014 at 9:42 AM.
    I got cash in my pocket. I got desire in my heart....

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judson Green View Post
    I have a new style Stanley Bedrock #4 (it was a gift) and it has a Norris style adjuster. And I find that adjuster rather difficult to set and easily bumped. Kind of a bummer as I had high hopes for that style adjuster, but the one on this plane has turned me off.

    Is the LV better? I didn't notice, are there set screws on the body to keep the iron set?
    I haven't had any issues with bumping the Norris adjuster, but I haven't used the new Stanley so I can't make any sort of comparison there. There are set screws, but they are intended to keep the blade centered, and you can still do some lateral adjustment with them engaged. If your prone to bumping a Norris adjuster the set screws won't necessarily prevent the problem.

    The Norris adjuster does take some getting used to if one is accustomed to Baily adjusters, but again, I've had no issues with bumping it, and am overall pleased with it.

    Since we are on the topic I'll also comment on the "adjust-ability on the fly" that some have asked about. It's worth noting that ones ability to make an adjustment without taking their hand off the tote will depend on hand size and the angle of the frog you have on the plane. I have fairly large hands, but not huge hands (~3 7/8" wide palm and rather long fingers) and I can easily adjust "on the fly" with the 45 degree frog in. Higher frogs, however, move the adjuster knob away from your hand. With the 55 degree frog in I need to remove my hand from the tote to make an adjustment.

    Just something worth considering if that's important to you. I don't think that majority of people would have any issues with on the fly adjustments using the 45 degree frog, but if one is a getting high angle frog and that "on fly" adjustment is really important to them (its not that important to me) than its definitely something to think about in deciding whether or not to purchase one of these.
    Last edited by Chris Griggs; 09-16-2014 at 9:08 AM. Reason: corrected info
    Woodworking is terrific for keeping in shape, but it's also a deadly serious killing system...

  4. #49
    I find the "on fly" adjustment really important. The bevel up does not allow it b'cos the chipbreaker screw is on the blade.
    Anyway I find there are pro and cons to the design and I have lived with them.

  5. #50
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    I should probably also define what I mean by "on fly"...there seem to be a few definitions that people use.

    Some folks use it to mean adjusting the plane while in motion, some use it to mean the ability to adjust the plane without loosening anything, and some folks mean something in btewen that. Above I was speaking more about being able to make adjustments without taking ones hand of the tote.

    So with that said. You definitely do not need to loosen anything to adjust the new BD planes, they 100% qualify for that definition of "on the fly" adjustment (and that aspect is somewhat important to me). Actually, I keep the caps on my BU planes loose enough that they also qualify for that definition.

    As far as being able to adjust without removing ones hand from the tote or possibly even mid stroke, that is what will depend on hand size and frog pitch...while I do find it nice to not need to remove my hand from the tote, I never make depth adjustments mid stroke so this aspect is less important to me.
    Last edited by Chris Griggs; 09-15-2014 at 11:47 AM.
    Woodworking is terrific for keeping in shape, but it's also a deadly serious killing system...

  6. #51
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    I should probably also define what I mean by "on fly"...there seem to be a few definitions that people use.
    Glad you defined this. My thoughts have been that with a Norris style adjuster the lever cap should be loosened when making adjustments.

    For me, this has always been one advantage of the Bailey style adjuster.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  7. #52
    I did try to loosen up the cap on the bevel up plane from Veritas. Problem was the blade did move while planing. Finally tighten down and it work flawlessly. Yup, "on fly" means my hand is on the tote.

    Despite my like for the bailey..... I still use my LAJ for tough wood from the tropics. Softer wood my bailey does fine.
    @Chris please review on the new planes. I am knocking my head what new advantages it brings to the table. I am a firm believer of effective angle and see no extra benefits from the new plane.... Clarification?

  8. #53
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    I also find I never need to loosen things on my Norris adjuster LV planes. There is no need to tighten everything so much that you cannot advance the blade without loosening it. I also never adjust blade depth mid stroke so it has never been an issue for me. I must admit I have never really understood when people talk about adjusting on the fly as the 1 second it takes me to stop and advance the Norris adjuster and continue has never seemed like anything painful or NOT on the fly. I always assumed they meant they were making adjustments mid-stroke while planning and that didn't seem any more useful to me so I always just left it alone. Now that it has been mentioned that the description of ON THE FLY could mean different things to different people, I think I can say I have no problem with Norris adjusters on the fly either (for how I work)...

  9. #54
    Creeping up to the right blade depth. But you are right. Once it is locked in. No need for the adjustment.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by john zulu View Post
    @Chris please review on the new planes. I am knocking my head what new advantages it brings to the table. I am a firm believer of effective angle and see no extra benefits from the new plane.... Clarification?
    Hi John,

    I haven't decided whether or not I'll write a full review yet...but the main reason I haven't yet is I have a prototype, and if were to review them I would want to wait until I have a production line one. Also, I honestly have a hard time with reviews, because at the end of the day a vintage bailey style plane with a properly set and tuned cap iron works wonders. So while I really enjoy my premium tools, find they make some things easier, and am in general a big fan LV (and LN), I don't want push the idea that premium tools are somehow a requirement to entry.

    When it comes to advantages of new bench planes in general (and the includes LN, LV, WR, Clifton, etc...) the advantages are mostly about niceties, comforts, and ease of setup and use. There's not a lot that can be done to dramatically improve upon a Bailey plane in terms of just getting from point A to point B, and I'll never tell anyone they need or should trade in there vintage planes or LNs or Cliftons or whatever for these. They are simply another option on the market that offer some different features and above all else some nice flexible options.

    As far as the advantages of the new line is concerned, most of the advantages are going to be the same advantages you get with any new premium plane...(good flat/square machining, tight adjustments, good blade, etc...)

    That said, I think the particular standout out features of these are the adjustable mouth and buyer choices. That's the main thing that makes them different from other offerings. On my vintage planes I don't generally adjust the frog or mouth much and as far as controlling tearout, don't really need to since the cap iron alone generally does enough. Still I have found that having an easily adjustable mouth is really nice. Its nice to be able to open it up or close it up so easily to suit a given use, and it is one additional weapon in the war against tearout.

    Is that feature needed to do good work? Certainly not, but I like it. That's all, its just really nice convenience..it's something that I've always liked about BU planes even though I've in general preferred BD planes...so I'm really happy to have it available on a BD plane. It will be an even more important feature for those who don't know how to or simply don't like to use cap irons. In such cases, users will be able to simply remove the cap iron entirely, and enjoy more control over tearout and one less piece part to deal with. I certainly WILL be using the cap iron on mine, but I think there are likely a lot of people who don't use them, and those are the folks who will benefit most from this design.

    For me the biggest feature is the buyer options. Personally, the planes in my shop that I use most aren't always the ones that are the "best", so much as they are the ones that are most comfortable to me. For me, being able to pick a style and size of tote and knob really is a very nice feature. Of course, one can always modify, make new, or even buy alternative totes for just about any plane, but being able to buy a new tool fitted to your grip style and hand size is nice...again not required, but nice. I can't say enough good about how the large Stanley tote feels in my hand, it just makes the plane more comfortable to use for longer periods of time.

    The adjuster is well, an adjuster. It works fine and does what it is supposed do and I don't really find it to be any better or any worse than any other finely made adjustment mechanism. The tool itself planes wood and leaves a nice surface, same as an LN or vintage or other...the result is the same, and the wood most certainly doesn't care what the plane is as long as it is sharp and setup properly.

    I'm guessing over the coming weeks we will begin to see reviews that detail multiple aspects of the design, but there's really not much else to say then that's all that substantial. They're nice tools, that are made to a high quality, are very easy setup/changeover/adjust, comfortable to use, and that have some unique features that some folks will really like and some won't, and some won't care about either way. The fact that they are available certainly doesn't make anything that was already on the market all of the sudden ineffective, it simply provides an additional set of options for those in the market.

    My advice to anyone who is on the fence with one of these would be to wait for multiple reviews to come out or better yet try to get their hands on one. I certainly like them an awful lot and would recommend them without hesitation, but its always good to have multiple perspectives.

    Hope all that helps. Again, I'm not sure if I want to or have time to write a full pictorial review, but if there are any specific questions you or anyone else has I am happy to answer them to the best of my ability.
    Last edited by Chris Griggs; 09-15-2014 at 2:57 PM.
    Woodworking is terrific for keeping in shape, but it's also a deadly serious killing system...

  11. #56
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    I believe that Hyvlar.se ordered some :-)

  12. #57
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    I can't recall where I saw it, but a flat ruler on a woodblock
    used as a height gauge. The cap iron and blade are assembled,
    and held vertically on the block.

    The blade is set on the wooden surface.
    The cap iron is slid down to the level of the ruler,
    about 0.5mm. It's not so fine as what was shown
    above, but it is repeatable.

  13. #58
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    "The blade is set on the wooden surface.
    The cap iron is slid down to the level of the ruler,
    about 0.5mm. It's not so fine as what was shown
    above, but it is repeatable."

    A feeler gage set gives quite a few options other than .020" (0.5mm).
    Last edited by Tom Vanzant; 09-15-2014 at 10:42 PM. Reason: Punctuation.

  14. #59
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    Sure, you could get so close as you like.

    I haven't tried it, yet.
    Seems like a simple, repeatable approach anyway.

  15. #60
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    I also never adjust blade depth mid stroke so it has never been an issue for me. I must admit I have never really understood when people talk about adjusting on the fly
    For me it is mostly done right after sharpening. The blade is set in the plane and the lever cap tight as the plane is run across a piece of wood. The blade is then lowered until it starts to take a shaving. At this time the lateral adjustment is set until it is equal side to side, then the depth is set.

    Sometimes a plane is taken off the shelf and is making a shaving lighter or heavier than desired. This can also be adjusted while the plane is moving across the wood.

    My LN 62 can be adjusted like this with the cap loose. The shaving thickness changes a touch when the cap is tightened. It needs to be tight when working or things can come apart. LN suggests a quarter turn between using and adjusting.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

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