Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 19

Thread: Finish Carcase before Fitting Drawers?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    547
    Blog Entries
    1

    Finish Carcase before Fitting Drawers?

    Hi

    I'm getting close to finishing my first project involving drawers. I decided to go all-in and learn to cut dovetails by hand, so after a fair amount of practice, I'm now moving on to building the drawers. I bought Rob Cosman's DVD on building drawers. He advocates finishing the carcase before fitting the drawers so that wax won't get onto the carcase and cause finishing problems. I'm not intending to fit the drawers to a piston fit (a bit beyond my skill at this point), so do you think I could go ahead and build and fit the drawers now? That way I can match the finish better at once.

    Mike

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    919
    I don't understand your question. I would complete the carcase before fitting drawers, but I would not put finish on anything until I was finished with both the carcase and the drawers. I don't use wax until the final final final fit and that can be done after both the carcase and drawers are finished. The fit should be good before the drawers are waxed.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Belden, Mississippi
    Posts
    2,742
    Build everything first before finishing. That's the way I've always done it.
    Just my thoughts.
    Bill
    On the other hand, I still have five fingers.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Chevy Chase, Maryland
    Posts
    2,484
    You would need to provide a lot more info about why you need wax to fit drawers and what finishes you are intending to use. The bottom line is that the only downside to finishing the carcass is the risk of messing up a completed finish while doing other stuff with the drawers. It shouldn't be a big deal either way.
    ~ Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    547
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rob Cosman fits drawers as piston fit. As a result, he waxes the drawer, runners, and the carcass sides as part of the fitting process. Since he doesn't wish to contaminate raw wood that will be finished, he applies finish to the carcase before fitting the drawers.

    My project is an eight legged writing desk inspired by Thomas Moser constructed of cherry with quilted cherry panels. I intend to first apply boiled linseed oil to pop the figure (cut with denatured alcohol), followed by water borne shellac and lacquer. I'm using Target coatings products for shellac and lacquer (em6000). As I'm not intending to wax the drawers until after applying the finish, I've decided to proceed with building and fitting the drawers prior to finishing.

    I intend to tint the Shellac (Amber) with transtint Boudreaux to mimic the old golden amber shellac that is no longer available. That's why I'd prefer to do all of the finishing at the same time to minimize color differences.

    Mike

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    22,492
    Blog Entries
    1
    Sounds like you are on the right track. I too was confused about where the "wax" got into the mix. I complete the carcass, fit the drawers and then finish. I do use BLO often enough but, have always "cut" it with mineral spirits.
    "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".


    – Samuel Butler

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Chevy Chase, Maryland
    Posts
    2,484
    Even at a piston fit, I can't really imagine why the wax couldn't wait until after finishing, but I guess I would have to see Cosman's process in detail to understand. Any fine drawers I do these days, I try to do side hung runners on as they make for the best action over the long term in my experience. I like to use teak for the runners as it is a waxy wood just naturally.





    As for your finish, the oil and shellac will not be too finicky about wax. Wax and water based finishes are not friendly, and wax might also cause problems with stains or where it actually blocks penetration by a finish. I've never heard of cutting BLO with alcohol. If I was thinning it, I'd use mineral spirits or turp. Alcohol is the stuff for shellac. Shellac is a great finish in that is will go over or under pretty much any other finish. Maybe that's why it has little problem with a bit of stray wax? You might want to consider some shellac flakes (blonde, orange, garnet, etc.) that might help you avoid the need for dye. And with curly cherry, brace yourself for color difference and maybe even gulp - blotching. Embrace the differences - you aren't Ethan Allen who needs to smear stain all over their cherry to produce some weird maroon color that is yuck, but at least consistent ;-).
    ~ Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Posts
    7,254
    Blog Entries
    7
    I love the bizarre looks I get from people who are first learning that cherry wood is not dark red.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    547
    Blog Entries
    1
    Thanks. Apparently mineral spirits can cause problems with target USH3000 water borne shellac so the recommendation was to cut the BLO with alcohol and avoid the mineral spirits. This will be my first project finished in this manner -- everything else has been either brushed varnish or wiped tung oil. So lots to learn!

    mike

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Chevy Chase, Maryland
    Posts
    2,484
    I've never heard of water borne shellac. You should try the real stuff, it's pretty great. Something like Liberon or BT&C:
    ~ Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Hughto View Post
    I've never heard of water borne shellac.
    I've got a gallon of target's amber waterborne shellac. I find it to look artificial after a couple of test applications (I was hoping to use it as a spray-on sanding sealer on cabinets), so I still have a gallon of it. I can't spray shellac in my garage because I don't have adequate ventilation, or I wouldn't have strayed from alcohol based in the first place.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Chevy Chase, Maryland
    Posts
    2,484
    As a good friend of mine who is head chemist of Mantrose Haeuser, said during a conversation on lacs, it's in all senses worthless as a replacement for true shellac as a wood coating.
    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...ed-as-Top-Coat
    ~ Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    547
    Blog Entries
    1
    Thanks. I do intend to test this out first and see if the results look ok. Did you apply a finish over the shellac? I bought the USH2000 due to some folk having issues with applying Target EM6000 over Zinser shellac. I bought the amber shellac and was advised to use TransTint Boudreaux dye to mimic the color of the old golden red.

    mike

  14. #14
    Mike-
    IMHO you may be overcomplicating the finishing with potentially incompatible items.

    are you sure BLO and waterborne shellac are compatible?
    BLO is not soluble (very much at least) in ethanol. In terms of solubility, BLO is very much like MS, which means if your topcoat has problems with MS, it may also have them with BLO.

    Instead of adding dye to shellac, which can requitre trial and error, and can be difficult to replicate (especially since you'll be adding a very small amount of dye to a lot of shellac, so your required precision is amplified.) Rather, if you want a 'redder' shellac, you may opt for a flaked shellac. It comes in an array of colors from "blonde" to "beige", to "garnet" (which are all in the end just different shades and intensities of amber).

    You can also accelerate your reddening by placing your piece in the sun for several days. You'll be surprised at the effect.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Chevy Chase, Maryland
    Posts
    2,484
    You could do it all in one step with something pretty foolproof like this:
    http://www.finewoodworking.com/how-t...r-varnish.aspx
    10 parts Pratt & Lambert No. 38 alkyd varnish, 10 parts pure tung oil, 2 parts Japan drier, and 2 to 3 parts turpentine.
    Last edited by Sean Hughto; 09-15-2014 at 4:09 PM.
    ~ Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •